Stealing this idea from a thread by smallsteps in the World Forum. Which is the biggest fight in history in your opinion and why? Am going to say, for me, Louis vs Schmeling II because of the wider stakes involved, the scale of the global politics and the symbolism, the men themselves their personal histories/situations and outcomes for them. Having said that also tempted to say and torn between Burns vs Johnson or Ali vs Frazier FOTC too. Could see excellent cases for them too. So which fight for you and why (these or others)? And is from the perspective you think important.
Biggest from an historical, high-profile perspective in a context wider than boxing = Yeah - 1) Louis vs Schmeling II, given the wider ramfications of it making a mockery of the Nazi propaganda around a superior Aryan Race; and 2) FOTC, given the correlation between Ali's re-emergence into boxing and the shifting public opinon on the US's invovlement in the Vietnam war; are the two obvious choices for me. Biggest in purely a boxing context = This is arguably even more subjective & I could choose to interpret in multiple ways. The criteria I'll go for is the fight between 2 x opponents that yields the lowest combined number based on my all time p4p rankings, where the winner wasn't the bigger guy and the loser was in their prime. Off the top of my head, that number is 18, from the Henry Armstrong (my #4) vs Barney Ross (my #14) fight. SRR vs Armstrong would only equal 5 on this basis, but Armstrong was both smaller & past prime. Greb vs Walker would only yield 14, both were prime, but Greb was bigger. Armstrong vs Ross was a fight between 2 x seriously great boxers, where the winner won & won well, despite his wonderful opponent being both bigger & an experienced 28-year old, just on account of him being even greater.
Honestly I've never met any German Nazis before, but I get the sense this Louis Schmelling 2 had far more social ramifications for USA, not so much for Germany. They were already in the midst of a war, and their agenda was against the Jews, not the blacks. I'm sure they were all rooting for Schmelling, but not the extent the Bert Sugars of the world would have us believe. May be if it was Schmelling vs a Jewish fighter I could believe the hype, but I see this story told more through the lense of US propaganda than anything else. One thing that always stuck out to me when reading about this fight as a kid: it was reported that Schmelling's "screams" could be heard throughout the arena after the KO. Well I've listened to.the radio broadcast of the fight numerous times, and I didn't hear anyone screaming. Also, with traumatic abdominal and intercostal injuries, which Schmelling was reported to have suffered, it is very difficult to "scream" with any type of audible volume
Louis vs Schmeling 2 was in July 1938. WWII started in September 1939. Nazi propaganda perpetuated the ideology of a superior Aryan race. Hitler personally lifted the nationwide 3am curfew in Germany so that bars could broadcast Louis vs Scmeling 2. It was a big deal for the Nazi's.
Owens did say he was treated worse in the US than Germany, but I suspect that was more about him wanting to emphasis the racism inherent to the US at the time, rather than being a glowing tribute to the egalitarian nature of the Nazi's. Hitler shook the hands of the white German & Finnish gold medalists, he didn't shake Owens hand, or the hands of any of the black gold medalists.
Have no idea, way before my time and I've heard numerous conflicting accounts of how events transpired. I've even seen photos of Hitler and Owens smiling together, which of course have been quickly dismissed as "fakes" (hell if I know, they look real enough to me)... What I do know is that I would never take a source such as the NY Time's version of what happened with anything more than a grain of salt. They have been proven time and again to print false, inaccurate, and intentionally misleading stories, especially when dealing with politics, presidents, or dictators.
Fair enough. We shouldn't take this thread off it's intended course any further than we already have, so I'll say I do not consider it debatable to say Nazi ideology is rooted in racism and that the Louis vs Schmeling 2 fight was a big deal for the Nazi's, as well as in the US, and leave it there.
Owens used to brag that he had a picture of him and Hitler together, and also claimed that Hitler congratulated him.
I think there's no objective answer to that. As far as I'm concerned it's the FOTC and nothing comes close but YMMV.
Yeah but people today forget no one had internet or social media back then. Most people in the world didn’t even have a tv. It was like the dark ages back then. You wanna contact someone in another country you had to write a letter to them. This fight would’ve big with the politicians both here an in Germany and maybe sports followers but the rest of the world probably didn’t have a clue what was happening or cared.
An estimated 70 million people listened to the broadcast of Louis vs Schmeling. A bigger proportion of the population tuned in to listen to that fight, than could give you the name of an active professional boxer today.
Got a reference for that? Treated like a star by who? Or are you referring to the friendship between Luz Long and Owens? What Owens rightly pointed out was that Roosevelt snubbed him by not inviting him to the White House while he invited the White athletes. He ignored all of the African -American athletes. This gives a short but clear breakdown of his interaction with Hitler. A lot of myths developed around the games. "A month after the Olympic Games, This content is protected , “Hitler didn’t snub me—it was [Roosevelt] who snubbed me. The president didn’t even send me a telegram.” Roosevelt never publicly acknowledged Owens’s triumphs—or the triumphs of any of the 18 African Americans who competed at the Berlin Olympics. Only white Olympians were invited to the White House in 1936." This content is protected The photo you mentioned This content is protected As for the Louis vs Schmeling rematch upto100 million around the world listened to it. It was broadcast in several languages (Beyond Glory by David Margolick gives examples of where it was being listened to around the world). Margolick also gives examples of it being reported in papers around the world English speaking and non-English speaking. I think you grossly underestimate just how important Joe Louis culturally and socially was to a variety of people. Nelson Mandela said listening to Joe Louis fights gave hope to many South Africans “You know, Nelson Mandela, when he came over to the United States after he was freed from Robben Island told me that he, along with thousands of black people in South Africa, had stayed awake to listen to my father’s fights on the radio,” he wrote. “It provided them with hope.” This content is protected
