The questions you have to ask are- Were any of the pivotal fights that established Carnera as a challenger to the title fixed? Was the title fight fixed? If not then you must give him his dues as a champion. Indeed a good one.
If the Liston fights were pre arranged ,who benefited,Clay was a 7 to 1 under dog ,there was no significant change in the odds and no big payouts were reported,so nobody made a killing,so the people behind Liston gave up the richest prize in sports for what exactly?.List on had negligible actual boxing rounds under his belt coming in to the fight,two blow outs of Patterson ,he severely underestimated Ali got gassed out when he couldnt take hi m out quickly and quit when he started to take a beating,end of story,in the second fight Ithink he could have got up, but said balls to it,the mob owned Liston ,but what did they get out of him losing the fight? I t made more sense for him to win the return,Alis backers were of good reputation .who gained from Liston diving? Again no big money was paid out,who willingly gives up the title ,unless they are financially compensated ? Ali didnt need the Muslims to beat Sonny ,he boxed his ears off Liston was an outof condition aging fighter ,who never learned to cut off the ring ,Ali was his stylistic nightmare,Machen, on fast forward,Sonny tried in the first fight,probably tried for a bit in the second got tagged and thought "the hell with it",thats my take on it.
Liston-Ali. I am 100% sure that the second one was a down fix and i'm about 60% convinced that the first one was.
That Hagler was robbed against Leonard,it was a close fight , if you liked Haglers constant aggression you voted for him ,if you preffered Leonard ,eyecatching flurries you pulled that way,I went for SRL ,just but it was a very close fight and either way it would not have been a robbery>
Seems irrelevant to me. Liston wouldn't train if he knew the fix would in and he wouldn't train if he knew the fix WASN'T in and you are right. But the fighter never says, PUT THE SOLUTION ON MY GLOVES. The trainer does it. Possibly when signalled, but sensibley, not. But not why he went after the body - a sensible plan in round one - as opposed to missing the head which he did throughout the early parts of the fight. The other reason is if you are told to take a dive in a specific round and are getting hit in the rounds before that round. Actually the terrible performance in Maine CAN be helped by a dive nearly gone wrong in the first fight. "No chances. You're going down in one."
Lamotta fought SRR 6 times and was never floored in any of the fights ,he fought big punchers like Lloyd Marshall,Bob Satterfield and Bob Murphy and never went down,the only man to ko him was Danny nardico ,at the end of his career ,you are either a wind up ,or not in possession of all your faculties.
Marshall punched murderous, not big. I would bet that description fits Sattersfield too? I agree that SRR could be considered a big puncher all things considered. LaMotta's chin is not really in doubt, I think...
Didn't we have long debate about the second fight with you ending up 55% convinced? What happened to those 5%??