Bill Caplan's 20 greatest heavyweights

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bonecrusher, Feb 13, 2016.


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  1. Webbiano

    Webbiano Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    And yer I've got no idea who you put at 15, Savold maybe?
     
    Webbiano, Feb 17, 2016
    Webbiano, Feb 17, 2016
    #76
  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Rocky best wins are post-1946. Charles, Walcott, and Moore.

    I need a new #15 for 1926-1945. Your pick?
     
    Mendoza, Feb 17, 2016
    Mendoza, Feb 17, 2016
    #77
  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Solid pick. Savold vs Galento for now. Galento had a higher ring magazine rating, I think as the #1 contender.
     
    Mendoza, Feb 17, 2016
    Mendoza, Feb 17, 2016
    #78
  4. Webbiano

    Webbiano Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I didn't give it much thought, kinda just picked it out of my ass, i think Galento is the better shout
     
    Webbiano, Feb 17, 2016
    Webbiano, Feb 17, 2016
    #79
  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Updated and fixed!

    Enclosed are my top 15 ranked heavyweights by 20-year intervals. The criteria for the ranking as follows.

    1 ) Head to head vs. the field, which is strictly my personal opinion. 40%

    2 ) Resume of wins and losses, excluding losses that happened when a fighter was passed their prime. 30%

    3 ) The distinction of the fighter as champion by beating top contenders in title matches if applicable. 20%

    4 ) Historians input, which matters most to fighters, not on film. 10%
    I will try to list each fighter only once, placing him closest to his prime years. I am also open to shifting the ratings a bit, as this is the 1st draft. So constructive feedback with explanations is most welcome.

    1885-1905 Pioneer era: The transitional time between bare knuckles and London Prize-ring rules to Queensberry rules.

    1.Jeffries
    2.Fitzsimmons
    3A. Jackson
    3B. Corbett
    5. Sullivan
    6. Sharkey
    7. Slavin
    8. Ruhlin
    9. Goddard
    10. Griffin
    11. Maher
    12. Choynski
    13. Hart
    14. McCoy
    15. O’Brien


    1906-1925 Black and white filmed era:

    1. Dempsey
    2. Tunney
    3. J Johnson
    4. Langford
    5. Wills
    6. Jeanette
    7. McVey
    8. Willard
    9. Greb
    10. Gibbons
    11. Burns
    12. Miske
    13. Godfrey
    14. Norfolk
    15. Smith

    1926-1945 Great Depression to World War II: An era where war and the great depression in the USA hurt boxing. I have trouble with the bottom of this list, as the depth is rather thin.

    1. Louis
    2. Charles
    3. Schmeling
    4. M Baer
    5. Carnera
    6. Godfrey
    7. Moore
    8. Bivins
    9. Schaff
    10. Conn
    11. Hamas
    12. Pastor
    13. Farr
    14. Loughran
    15. Galento

    1946-1965 Golden age era:

    1. Liston
    2. Marciano
    3. Patterson
    4. Walcott
    5. Johansson
    6. Ray
    7. Terrell
    8. Machen
    9. Folley
    10. Williams
    11. H. Johnson
    12. Valdes
    13. D Jones
    14. Chuvalo
    15. Layne



    1966-1985: TV expansion to Cable and PPV: This era is loaded with talent.

    1. Ali
    2. Holmes
    3. Foreman
    4. Frazier
    5. Norton
    6. Witherspoon
    7. Thomas
    8. Quarry
    9. Page
    10. Coetzee
    11. Shavers
    12. Lyle
    13. C00ney
    14. Young
    15. Weaver


    1986-2003: 12 round era and super heavyweight era. This era had tremendous depth and a lot of talent.

    1. Lewis
    2. Holyfield
    3. Tyson
    4. Bowe
    5. Ibeabuchi
    6.Byrd
    7. Morrer
    8. Mercer
    9. Douglas
    10. Tua
    11. Morrison
    12. Bruno
    13. Rhaman
    14 McCall
    15. Ruiz.



    2003-( ratings are of 2015 ) 2026 – Eastern European dominance era. While this era is only half over, the nations producing the top talent has shifted. Once the iron curtain in Eastern Europe fell both the amateur and professional ranks have been dominated by Eastern Europeans. Only 2 Americans made the top ten. Since many of the below fighters career’s are over, and future talent in the amateurs will arrive, this list will likely look very different after the Klitshcko’s come 2026. It is possible young pros such as Joshua will rate in the next 4 years. Hopefully, we will all be here to debate it!

    1A. V Klitschko
    1B. W Kltischko
    3. Povetkin
    4. Chagaev
    5. Sanders
    6. Ibragimov
    7. Haye
    8. Adamek
    9. Chambers
    10. Brewster
    11. Peter
    12. Valuev
    13. Gomez
    14. Solis
    15. Pulev


    *On deck to be rated if they keep up the good work Fury, Joshua, Parker, Ortiz, Kuzman, plus the 2016 Olympic class*
     
    Mendoza, Feb 17, 2016
    Mendoza, Feb 17, 2016
    #80
  6. Bonecrusher

    Bonecrusher Lineal Champion Full Member

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    I've always thought Williams vs Tyson was a premature stoppage, now Carl clearly didn't do what you should do after getting knocked down I always felt like when Randy Newman asked him the question he kind of shook his head like yeah that was a good shot but I'm fine. But it kind of made it look like he was saying no or was out of it. Tyson probably just bulldozes him in the remainder of the round anyway but I can't help but be curious being that Douglas would beat him in his next fight with similar tools that Williams had. Weaver another guy on you list Carl was pummeling until he got hit with the left took which he could never seem to avoid in any of his fights. Williams also beat Berbick. Williams for me will go down as a guy who had enough talent to hold a belt but never won one, he's clearly better than many who have held a title .
     
    Bonecrusher, Feb 17, 2016
    Bonecrusher, Feb 17, 2016
    #81
  7. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    1. Ali
    2. Louis
    3. Holmes
    4. Foreman
    5. Liston
    6. Lewis
    7. Dempsey
    8. Marciano
    9. Frazier
    10. Holyfield/Tyson (can't choose)
    11. Wladamir
    12. Johnson
    13. Jeffries
    14. Langford
    15. Schmeling
     
    dmt, Feb 17, 2016
    dmt, Feb 17, 2016
    #82
  8. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I would swap Liston for either of the last three and marciano above Holmes. Good list though.
    :good
     
    choklab, Feb 18, 2016
    choklab, Feb 18, 2016
    #83
  9. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    Thanks. Hw list for some reason is harder to make than most other divisions.
     
    dmt, Feb 18, 2016
    dmt, Feb 18, 2016
    #84
  10. Bonecrusher

    Bonecrusher Lineal Champion Full Member

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    Good points!! Yeah Bear and Louis not a shame at all, when Max was on he was a handful see also the Schmeming fight!! My grandfather had plenty a Max Baer story back when I was a young boxing fan in the very early 80's and late 70's.. He used to talk about his ridiculous punching power. He seemed quite fond of Baer.. My other grandfather spoke highly of John L, he also was a big Floyd Patterson fan having met him while serving in the Korean War I'm not sure if Patterson maybe dhd some exhibitions or what not but grandpa spoke of meeting him and he thought he was a good fighter but acknowledged that he may of not been able to take the best punch in the world and that was his only weakness really, grandpa didn't like Floyds chances against the big punchers ..

    And as far as Primo losing to Louis, JL is to me the GOAT at heavyweight so zero shame there as well.
     
    Bonecrusher, Feb 19, 2016
    Bonecrusher, Feb 19, 2016
    #85
  11. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Holmes I would drop a few,Norton? and Bowe? go out, Ellis? Quarry? everyone has an opinion but the old trainers like Freddie Brown, Arcel, etc. had inside opinions, the rest of these guys dont carry much weight with me
     
    Bummy Davis, Feb 19, 2016
    Bummy Davis, Feb 19, 2016
    #86
  12. Bonecrusher

    Bonecrusher Lineal Champion Full Member

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    Bowe on his best night was a handful, problem was he peaked vs Holyfield in fight one and seemed to be on the decline after. Though I'd still favor even the Bowe of the 2nd Holyfield fight over many. I watched every single fight in Rid**** Bowe's career I've got them all taped I remember watching him even as an amateur.. He was always lazy but he was really good so he could get away with it.. Such an interesting style, such a big man with a good jab who loved to fight on the inside and was damn good at infighting. I remember when he fought Bert Cooper and it was a Cooper who came to win!! Bowe chose to fight on the inside in round one and Cooper got the better of him, so Bowe stepped back and decided to fight on the outside for round two and he took Cooper out with a long straight right hand so he could do it all he had all the tools for sure. He went to the body well also I always think that's one of the reasons he gave Holy such trouble his body attack, you could weaken Evander to the body.
     
    Bonecrusher, Feb 19, 2016
    Bonecrusher, Feb 19, 2016
    #87
  13. Webbiano

    Webbiano Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Do you not think Bowe and Holy looked pretty average in their second fight? I don't think either were the same after their first fight though. I've also got a feeling Futch probably woke Bowe up in the corner in between rounds against Cooper.
     
    Webbiano, Feb 19, 2016
    Webbiano, Feb 19, 2016
    #88
  14. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Bowe was a good amateur, I remember him fighting as a light heavy in the NYC golden gloves and was impressed, he was a 6'5 Light Heavy and he KO'd a guy in the finals with a nice right hand.

    I was with a group looking for a heavyweight,Bowe was ready to turn PRO, there were nose candy rumors and he lost to Lennox in Olympic finals, we put in an offer for Lewis and make him fight out of North America USA but we were outbid by a British group is what I was told

    As a pro Bowe did not live up to his potential but still did well, I just think he did not train or do his best.....He was impressive as a light heavy

    I also watched Gerry ****ey as a 6"6 southpaw middleweight and he scored a 1st rd KO in the GG finals,he then went on to get stopped as a light heavyweight vs Johnny Davis
     
    Bummy Davis, Feb 19, 2016
    Bummy Davis, Feb 19, 2016
    #89
  15. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Charles was not a heavyweight 1945 and prior. He was a middleweight/light heavyweight at that time. He belongs in the following era where he actually fought as a heavyweight.
     
    Perry, Feb 19, 2016
    Perry, Feb 19, 2016
    #90
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