Baer was really highly thought of and like you say so was Joe Louis so getting beat by those two isn't so bad. Bear convincingly beat prime Schmeling. In fact Carnera did as well versus Louis as Baer did but all anyone cares about is the Bud Schulberg film, that's what hurts Primo more than anything that happened against elite fighters.
I wouldn't say average but they both left something in the ring that night. For Bowe he never looked physically as fit again. If you look at Rid****'s body pre championship he was usually lean even while being a thick man. I remember when he was fighting guys like Biggs/Tubbs/Seldon/Cooper he was always around 225/230. After that first Holyfield fight I don't believe he ever weighed under 240 again. He seemed the same fighter just a notch slower so it could of been his training or the fight (fights) taking their toll of both. I'll never forget before the Holyfield rematch reading an article in one of my monthly published boxing magazines (boxing mags/90's version of YouTube) An article about the massive house Bowe had built and he put a deluxe kitchen in his bedroom, big daddy liked to eat lol. As for Holyfield he was never the same Holyfield again. He would still gain many a huge victory and still be an outstanding fighter but he was never quite the same. Before this his 1st defeat he would always either break or outbox his opponent. He was a marvel of superior conditioning and endurance along with ridiculous guts and heart along with beautiful fundamentals he was so polished and coordinated. Something changed, after this fight while he became a bigger stronger Holyfield by adding some additional weight he just fought different. Maybe like Bowe just being a bigger man sapped his ability to go all out?? Probably not, so maybe it was the war (wars) he would fight smarter sometimes in these later stages of his career. Not breaking Bowe in fight 1 obviously showed him you can't always break everyone sometimes you've gotta fight smart. His second fight with Bowe as well as his fight vs Tyson are two examples of him fighting the right fight plan. Still for me I'll take the Holyfield of the Foreman fight as the PRIME Holyfield. This later Holyfield seemed sloppy in the ring sometimes and would also gas in "some" fight. And of course he'd sometimes not fight smart. The 3rd Bowe fight he looked a dead man early yet he almost knocked Bowe out with one punch moments after looking DEAD. So he had advantages and disadvantages with both versions of himself. I honestly believe to circle back to your original question that yes they both damaged one another but on the other side of all 3 fights even though Bowe won 2 out of 3 he was much the worse for wear of the two.
I can appreciate the time it must have taken to post this, let alone actually formulate it. Nice work.
I would take Holyfield and throw him out of the top ten Johnson, Jeffries, Dempsey, Bowe, Louis round out the top five. after that who cares
So Klitschko was the one who went 49-0, beating legendary fighters such as Joe Louis (the greatest or second greatest heavyweight of all time), Jersey Joe Walcott, Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, etc, while Marciano was the one getting knocked out by bums like Ross Purity, and has best win over a cruiser weight? Keep on trolling.
naa mate he was the one who got wpied out in seconds by a retired failure. its fairly obvioius that the most accomplished k bro isnt making a top twenty h2h if a retired failed prospect wiped him out instantly. Wlad H2H needs to figure somewhere pretty lows, in the hundreds - there are way too many champs and non champs who were never wiped out by retired failed prospects.
Leaving off the guy who owned the division for about 8% of its existence under MDQ rules is an admittance that you either can't understand or refuse to understand the sport.
For starters, I have to argue Mike Tyson's placement. Though I agree somewhat as to his reasoning, Mike at least deserves placement at #10, great heart or no. He was completely indomitable as a teenager.
Difference is Tunney was the greatest boxer we have had as hwt champion. That distinction gives him a place in a top ten listing.
Tunney ain't no top 10. Definitely not, in any world above Klitschko. Either Klitschko. Or Tyson. Tbh he shouldn't even be above Spinks. Why is Marciano top 3? He's arguably not top 10.
That's a tough call imo. Rocky did retire undefeated, and until someone else pulls that off he'll probably remain in the lists indefinitely. Marciano isn't anywhere near my favorite fighter, but for that undefeated reason I myself have a hard time leaving him out of a top 10.
Marciano went 49-0. Yes it’s a big deal as no one has replicated it. Tunney was the greatest pure boxer in terms of boxing skill ever as hwt champion. That distinction puts him in a top ten ATG hwt champion listing.
A list is a bunch of names. The reasoning behind it matters more Louis Ali Holmes Marciano - Too high Foreman Frazier - too high Lewis Holyfield Tunney - Too high Dempsey Liston Norton - Too high Bowe Walcott - Too many losses to rate this high. Patterson - Too high Vitali klit - Loo low Tyson - Too low Quarry - Does not belong Ellis - Does not belong Wlad Klit - Too low Let's just say Bill isn't Hank.
