Bill Caplan's 20 greatest heavyweights

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bonecrusher, Feb 13, 2016.


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  1. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Baer was really highly thought of and like you say so was Joe Louis so getting beat by those two isn't so bad. Bear convincingly beat prime Schmeling. In fact Carnera did as well versus Louis as Baer did but all anyone cares about is the Bud Schulberg film, that's what hurts Primo more than anything that happened against elite fighters.
     
    choklab, Feb 19, 2016
    choklab, Feb 19, 2016
    #91
  2. Bonecrusher

    Bonecrusher Lineal Champion Full Member

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    I wouldn't say average but they both left something in the ring that night. For Bowe he never looked physically as fit again. If you look at Rid****'s body pre championship he was usually lean even while being a thick man. I remember when he was fighting guys like Biggs/Tubbs/Seldon/Cooper he was always around 225/230. After that first Holyfield fight I don't believe he ever weighed under 240 again. He seemed the same fighter just a notch slower so it could of been his training or the fight (fights) taking their toll of both. I'll never forget before the Holyfield rematch reading an article in one of my monthly published boxing magazines (boxing mags/90's version of YouTube)
    An article about the massive house Bowe had built and he put a deluxe kitchen in his bedroom, big daddy liked to eat lol.

    As for Holyfield he was never the same Holyfield again. He would still gain many a huge victory and still be an outstanding fighter but he was never quite the same. Before this his 1st defeat he would always either break or outbox his opponent. He was a marvel of superior conditioning and endurance along with ridiculous guts and heart along with beautiful fundamentals he was so polished and coordinated. Something changed, after this fight while he became a bigger stronger Holyfield by adding some additional weight he just fought different. Maybe like Bowe just being a bigger man sapped his ability to go all out?? Probably not, so maybe it was the war (wars) he would fight smarter sometimes in these later stages of his career. Not breaking Bowe in fight 1 obviously showed him you can't always break everyone sometimes you've gotta fight smart. His second fight with Bowe as well as his fight vs Tyson are two examples of him fighting the right fight plan. Still for me I'll take the Holyfield of the Foreman fight as the PRIME Holyfield. This later Holyfield seemed sloppy in the ring sometimes and would also gas in "some" fight. And of course he'd sometimes not fight smart. The 3rd Bowe fight he looked a dead man early yet he almost knocked Bowe out with one punch moments after looking DEAD. So he had advantages and disadvantages with both versions of himself. I honestly believe to circle back to your original question that yes they both damaged one another but on the other side of all 3 fights even though Bowe won 2 out of 3 he was much the worse for wear of the two.
     
    Bonecrusher, Feb 20, 2016
    Bonecrusher, Feb 20, 2016
    #92
  3. fists of fury

    fists of fury Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I can appreciate the time it must have taken to post this, let alone actually formulate it. Nice work.
     
    fists of fury, Feb 20, 2016
    fists of fury, Feb 20, 2016
    #93
  4. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    lol!
     
    HerolGee, Feb 20, 2016
    HerolGee, Feb 20, 2016
    #94
    swagdelfadeel likes this.
  5. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I would take Holyfield and throw him out of the top ten

    Johnson, Jeffries, Dempsey, Bowe, Louis round out the top five. after that who cares
     
    redrooster, Feb 20, 2016
    redrooster, Feb 20, 2016
    #95
  6. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    So Klitschko was the one who went 49-0, beating legendary fighters such as Joe Louis (the greatest or second greatest heavyweight of all time), Jersey Joe Walcott, Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, etc, while Marciano was the one getting knocked out by bums like Ross Purity, and has best win over a cruiser weight? Keep on trolling.
     
    swagdelfadeel, Feb 22, 2016
    swagdelfadeel, Feb 22, 2016
    #96
  7. Bonecrusher

    Bonecrusher Lineal Champion Full Member

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    Out of curiosity H2H would you pick Jeffries to beat Holyfield? If so, what's it look like?
     
    Bonecrusher, Feb 28, 2016
    Bonecrusher, Feb 28, 2016
    #97
  8. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    naa mate he was the one who got wpied out in seconds by a retired failure.


    its fairly obvioius that the most accomplished k bro isnt making a top twenty h2h if a retired failed prospect wiped him out instantly.

    Wlad H2H needs to figure somewhere pretty lows, in the hundreds - there are way too many champs and non champs who were never wiped out by retired failed prospects.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
    HerolGee, Nov 19, 2017
    HerolGee, Nov 19, 2017
    #98
    swagdelfadeel likes this.
  9. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Leaving off the guy who owned the division for about 8% of its existence under MDQ rules is an admittance that you either can't understand or refuse to understand the sport.
     
    Seamus, Nov 19, 2017
    Seamus, Nov 19, 2017
    #99
  10. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    For starters, I have to argue Mike Tyson's placement. Though I agree somewhat as to his reasoning, Mike at least deserves placement at #10, great heart or no. He was completely indomitable as a teenager.
     
    RulesMakeItInteresting, Aug 24, 2019
    RulesMakeItInteresting, Aug 24, 2019
    #100
  11. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Difference is Tunney was the greatest boxer we have had as hwt champion. That distinction gives him a place in a top ten listing.
     
    HOUDINI, Aug 24, 2019
    HOUDINI, Aug 24, 2019
    #101
    RulesMakeItInteresting likes this.
  12. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    Tunney ain't no top 10.

    Definitely not, in any world above Klitschko. Either Klitschko. Or Tyson.
    Tbh he shouldn't even be above Spinks.

    Why is Marciano top 3? He's arguably not top 10.
     
    George Crowcroft, Aug 24, 2019
    George Crowcroft, Aug 24, 2019
    #102
    RulesMakeItInteresting likes this.
  13. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    That's a tough call imo. Rocky did retire undefeated, and until someone else pulls that off he'll probably remain in the lists indefinitely.

    Marciano isn't anywhere near my favorite fighter, but for that undefeated reason I myself have a hard time leaving him out of a top 10.
     
    RulesMakeItInteresting, Aug 24, 2019
    RulesMakeItInteresting, Aug 24, 2019
    #103
    ironchamp likes this.
  14. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Marciano went 49-0. Yes it’s a big deal as no one has replicated it.

    Tunney was the greatest pure boxer in terms of boxing skill ever as hwt champion. That distinction puts him in a top ten ATG hwt champion listing.
     
    HOUDINI, Aug 24, 2019
    HOUDINI, Aug 24, 2019
    #104
  15. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    A list is a bunch of names. The reasoning behind it matters more


    Louis
    Ali
    Holmes
    Marciano - Too high
    Foreman
    Frazier - too high
    Lewis
    Holyfield
    Tunney - Too high
    Dempsey
    Liston
    Norton - Too high
    Bowe
    Walcott - Too many losses to rate this high.
    Patterson - Too high
    Vitali klit - Loo low
    Tyson - Too low
    Quarry - Does not belong
    Ellis - Does not belong
    Wlad Klit - Too low

    Let's just say Bill isn't Hank.
     
    Mendoza, Aug 24, 2019
    Mendoza, Aug 24, 2019
    #105
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