Billy Fox - Jake La Motta fight

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Senya13, Dec 12, 2007.


  1. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    What's your opinion, was it a fix or not?
     
  2. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I believe Jake LaMotta testified before a congressional committee that he took a dive. This would be really big league lying that could have gotten LaMotta quite a bit of jail time for perjury. I don't think LaMotta would have sworn to taking a dive if it were not true. What would be his motive? Vanity would not be that big a motive as he was not off his feet in the Fox fight and was in fact stopped three other times.
     
  3. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The committee didn't find any proof of a fix though, did it?
    I'll try scanning the articles about the fight from Jan or Feb 1948 ring magazine (don't remember which one had it). If anybody wants to provide newspaper articles about it, please do.
     
  4. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    How can you say that LaMotta testifying that he took a dive is not evidence? What would you consider proof? Fox's manager was one Blinky Palermo, an outright mobster who was involved in all sorts of shady dealings. Palermo, if I recall, took the fifth on the LaMotta-Fox fight, hardly likely to clean up the smell about a fix.
     
  5. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ok, let me say it differently, other than LaMotta's own words, they didn't find anything else to back up a claim of a fix. Or did they?
     
  6. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    They dug up evidence that several of Fox's other fights were also fixed. Fox himself testified that he was told in one fight to go out and throw punches in the 10th but he was out of gas and couldn't mount much of an attack but his opponent went down anyway from what Fox thought was a miss.
    Try reading Sports Illustrated in 1961. It was a weekly and covered those hearings in great detail. The major newspapers covered them also.
    This was a Senate Committee. Why would LaMotta lie? He was risking a great deal of jail time just to falsely claim he threw a fight.
     
  7. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    November 20, 1947, when LaMotta visited the District Attorney's office for questioning:
    When asked by reporters about reports the match had been "fixed," LaMotta replied: "I have nothing to say. We know nothing." He insisted, "All I know is I fought the best I knew how and I was in fine shape."
    To questions about reports of a pre-fight conference between himself and his opponent's manager, the boxer declared: "I read about that. All I can say is it's a dirty lie."

    On February 13, 1948 the commission's statement reads:
    This Commission has been investigating whether or not, in connection with the Billy Fox and Jacob LaMotta contest, Jacob LaMotta was guilty of conducnt detrimental to the best interests of boxing. The Commission received testimony from all persons connected with the preparations for this contest and the actual contest itself. The evidence established without any serious dispute that Jacob LaMotta sustained an injury to his left side during the training for this contest and that he was advised by his physician to refrain from engaging in such contests. No report whatsoever as to those facts was made to the Commission by the boxer, LaMotta, or anyone on his behalf.
    In the actual contest the bout was stopped in the fourth round. The boxer LaMotta testified that his opponent struck him in the area where he had previously sustained his injury and as a result that from then on he was materially incapacitated.
     
  8. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I have never seen the bout, but from what I have read, the balance of probability is that it was a fix. Maybe it is not beyond reasonable doubt though...
     
  9. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  10. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I saw the fight. LaMotta tanked it late.
     
  11. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    What exactly suggests he tanked it, on film?
     
  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    The later rounds. LaMotta would not press the action or throw punches. He seemed like he wanted to get hit. I saw Bert Sugar comment on the fight. He said something to the effect of Jake was a lousy actor. The mob controlled boxing back then. The deal was to make money on Lamotta throwing a fight, then giving him a crack at the title later.
     
  13. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Not pressing the action and not throwing punches (did he throw nothing at all or were the punches just lacking speed or power?) can be explained by the injury he had, and he himself testified that to the commission.
    I'm aware of the mob controlling it, but in this particular case there was no proof whatsoever except LaMotta's testification almost 15 years later after the fight, when it was obvious the validity of it couldn't be checked anymore.
     
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    You'll have to see the film for yourself. It doesn't look like Lamotta is trying in there. In fact he looks like a paid sparring partner. The 40's and 50's were soiled by fixed fights at MSG.
     
  15. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Also, common sense suggests that there'd be no wide-spread rumors like that before the fight. I doubt Palermo or Carbo were so stupid to share such knowledge with somebody, so that everyone knew it was going to be a fix prior to the fight, to the point that no betting on Fox was possible and only bets on LaMotta were accepted (if we are to believe the NYT writer).