Billy Graham Joey Giardello Trilogy - Who should have come out on top?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by sweet_scientist, Dec 24, 2007.


  1. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I have only seen the second bout which I felt Graham won, but Giardello recieved the decision. It was an interesting turn of affairs. Giardello was originally declared the winner, but then the commissioner stepped in and declared Graham the winner. Eventually it went to court and Giardello was reinstated as the winner.

    For mine, I felt Graham mastered him on the inside with hooks ot the body and held his own against a faster free swinging, younger Girdello on the outside by sticking the jab and using subtle shifts of the head to roll with the hooks.

    Rocky Marciano was doing commentary in the fight, and he also had Graham taking the duke. He commented that though Graham was slightly past his prime by that stage, he put in a great effort, and I'd have to agree. Not as sharp as I had seen Graham against Gavilan in their third encounter, but a wily old vet who knew every trick in the book, and used it to outfox the somewhat green 22 year old Joey.

    I have not seen their first and third encounters but I notice at boxrec that even the first decision (which again, Giardello won) was disputed. Graham won the third but I know nothing about it.

    So how should the trilogy stand? Did Graham win them all? Did Giardello win them all? Somehting in between? What were the scribes' reactions to their fights?
     
    sweet_scientist, Dec 24, 2007
    sweet_scientist, Dec 24, 2007
    #1
  2. WhataRock

    WhataRock Loyal Member Full Member

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    Any thoughts?
     
    WhataRock, Jan 5, 2011
    WhataRock, Jan 5, 2011
    #2
  3. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    A few points to make Rock...I did not see live Graham/Giardello fight, but I saw young Joey Giardello flattened in six rounds by Harold Green a neighbor of mine in 1950. And I watched billy Graham from a 4 rd prelim
    fighter to main event. When the two fought, Billy Graham ,a natural 147 lb
    welterweight, more than held his own in their trilogy with the bigger middleweight Joey Giardello. Besides Graham was at 8 years older, was past his peak, by then. Billy did everything better than Giardello, except
    punching power...P4p, I take Billy Graham IMO....
     
    burt bienstock, Jan 5, 2011
    burt bienstock, Jan 5, 2011
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  4. WhataRock

    WhataRock Loyal Member Full Member

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    Interesting to hear your thought Burt.

    You feel Billy was technically superior and defensively better than Giardello? They are both high level operators, but I thought Joey would have pipped him possibly in this regard.
     
    WhataRock, Jan 5, 2011
    WhataRock, Jan 5, 2011
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  5. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    All conjecture R, but if an out of prime[8 years older],and smaller Billy
    Graham, held his own ,with the bigger,younger, middleweight Giardello,
    who was the better fighter, all things considered ?
     
    burt bienstock, Jan 6, 2011
    burt bienstock, Jan 6, 2011
    #5
  6. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It's a funny one.

    Graham may have been maybe slightly technically better than Giardello (definitely was defensively), but if you compare Billy Graham to the standards of welterweights and Joey Giardello to the standards of middleweights, Giardello probably comes out the better of the two.

    Why?

    I think the reason for this is hand speed. Not that there was a big gap in hand speed between Giardello and Graham, but Giardello was a tad quicker for mine, and especially FOR THEIR RESPECTIVE DIVISIONS, this made quite a difference.

    Giardello's speed is quite good by middleweight standards, whereas I don't think Graham's is by welterweight standards.

    Does this mean that welterweights are simply better than middleweights all things considered? I don't think so, but definitely speed plays a bigger role at welterweight than it does at middleweight....
     
    sweet_scientist, Jan 6, 2011
    sweet_scientist, Jan 6, 2011
    #6
  7. lora

    lora Fighting Zapata Full Member

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    I think it's often easier to move up in weight against cutie boxer types as well.Not necessarily easier to beat them, but easier to fight your own fight and keep physicality to a minimum.
     
    lora, Jan 6, 2011
    lora, Jan 6, 2011
    #7
  8. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This makes sense.
     
    El Bujia, Jan 6, 2011
    El Bujia, Jan 6, 2011
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  9. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Giardello-Graham I report from boxrec.

    Scartissue

    1952-08-04 : Billy Graham 148 lbs lost to Joey Giardello 151¾ lbs by SD in round 10 of 10
    Location: Eastern Parkway Arena, Brooklyn, New York, USA
    Referee: Barney Felix 3-6
    Judge: Harold Barnes 4-6
    Judge: Sam Robinson 5-4

    "Joey Giardello, a 4-1 underdog, pulled a major boxing upset Monday by winning a split 10 round decision over veteran welterweight challenger Billy Graham before a crowd of 3,000 in Brooklyn's Eastern Parkway Arena. An irate Graham announced immediately that he would demand that the New York State boxing commission hold a hearing both on the surprise decision and of the conduct of referee Barney Felix. Graham had concentrated on an attack featuring a darting left jab and a thumping right to the body. He protested afterwards that referee Felix interfered with his right hand work in close quarters. Giardello, scaling 151 3/4 to Graham's 149 3/4, took a severe body beating in some of the sessions but his youth and stamina enabled him to withstand the punishment and blast Graham with flurries of hard lefts and right hooks to the head." -United Press

    *Unofficial UP scorecard - 8-2 Graham

    *Graham's co-managers, Irving Cohen and Jack Reilly filed a formal complaint to the boxing commission. Commission chairman Bob Christenberry stated they would hold a hearing on Thursday, August 7, 1952.

    *Graham complained after the fight that referee Barney Felix had been unfavorable to him twice before. In his 2nd bout with Kid Gavilan and a 1946 bout with Tony Pellone.

    *Graham appeared at the August 7th hearing to withdraw his complaint. Explaining that he did not wish to be branded a "cry-baby".

    *Although Graham was scheduled for an August 20, 1952 bout with Carmen Basilio, Eastern Parkway Arena matchmaker Teddy Brenner claimed he had signed contracts for an August 25, 1952 rematch between Graham and Giardello. However, the Basilio fight went ahead as planned.
     
    scartissue, Jan 6, 2011
    scartissue, Jan 6, 2011
    #9
  10. scartissue

    scartissue Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Giardello-Graham III from boxrec.

    Scartissue

    1953-03-06 : Billy Graham 149½ lbs beat Joey Giardello 155½ lbs by UD in round 12 of 12
    Location: Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, USA
    Referee: Ruby Goldstein 6-3
    Judge: Artie Aidala 8-3
    Judge: Bert Grant 7-4

    Notes
    "Billy Graham scored the 100th and undoubtedly sweetest victory of his 12 year pro career tonight when he gained a unanimous 12 round decision over middleweight Joey Giardello of Philadelphia in MSG. The majority of the crowd of 8,638 cheered the New York welterweight contender's first victory in three clashes with his heavier rival. The added two rounds proved decisive tonight for the veteran who grew stronger while his younger rival faded. Billy, fighting with a cut on the bridge of his nose from the 1st round on, swept the last two rounds on the official's cards to cap his hard-earned victory." -Associated Press

    Unofficial scorecards

    AP - 6-4-2 Graham
    UP - 9-3 Graham
     
    scartissue, Jan 6, 2011
    scartissue, Jan 6, 2011
    #10
  11. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Cheers for digging that out scar, great work. :good

    Mante, good point.
     
    sweet_scientist, Jan 6, 2011
    sweet_scientist, Jan 6, 2011
    #11