Bizarre shift in opinion of Fury v Wilder II

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by andrewa1, Feb 13, 2019.



  1. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I haven't been around here much in the last month or so, but it seems whenever I check in, there seems to be a bigger undercurrent thinking that Wilder beats Fury in the rematch than before. Huh?

    A. Boxer's beat punchers more often than vice versa in rematches. Debatable I guess, I've seen plenty of rematches with both results, but I think there is truth to this perception.

    B. It's easier to see Fury making meaningful adjustments than Wilder. Fury just needs to ****ing stop relying on dipping related tactics so much. Both times he got nailed he was dipping in some form instead of retreating back or smothering. He can get in better shape and his footwork should improve, which should make overreliance on dipping much easier to avoid.

    Wilder's potential adjustments (go to body, throw more punches, hit Fury while dipping) are either dependent on what Fury does, or just plain much harder to execute and improve upon than Fury's adjustments and options to get better.

    It wouldn't surprise me if Wilder ko'd Fury. They are fairly well matched, as match 1 proved. But Fury should be a relatively solid favorite for such a high level match, and its odd to see people expecting Wilder to win to the extent they are.
     
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  2. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Agreed. Also the first fight proved Wilder does not have the power to take Fury out with one shot, he hit Fury with 2 flush shots in the 12th and he still go up. If Wilder is to win he'll need to land flush repeatedly during several rounds and grind him down, which just seems unlikely given how one sided the first fight was.
     
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  3. Ted Stickles

    Ted Stickles Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I agree I feel Fury can make adjustments and can be in better condition because let’s be honest that wasn’t the best version of Tyson Fury. As for Wilder he might make adjustments but when things get going he’s going I resort back to the way of fighting that he’s always been doing out of habit. But as has been stated by a lot of people Wilder has that power that makes him dangerous for the entire fight. In the end I think Fury is going to be fighting lefty and his guard will be up more often then not in the rematch his mobility and conditioning should be noticeably better this time.

    Can’t wait for the rematch!!
     
  4. Liquorice

    Liquorice Well-Known Member Full Member

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    It's the black white thing at heavyweight, a lot of people are intellectually limited & still stuck in the 20th century & the whole 'US white hope thing'.. Bet on black & all that.. Regardless of how many Klitschko's, Furys, Lomas, Kovalevs, Usyks etc come along..

    Fury is a level above Wilder.
     
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  5. Holler

    Holler Doesn't appear to be a paid matchroom PR shill Full Member

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    Fury is a far better boxer and should be fitter, sharper and more confident for this fight. All things being equal he should win. All things aren't equal however and the biggest single fact which makes me question that call is that there's more money, probably far more money, to be made in a unification between a US HW champion and AJ than there is in all British affair, great though that would be. Very often in boxing the result which will generate more money down the line is the one we get. Apologies if that's taking cynicism too far.
     
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  6. Badbot

    Badbot Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!
    First KD happened because Fury dipped, tried to smother Wilder, but Wilder stepped off the line and switched angles. It was a beautiful set up by Wilder. (And I think Wilder also controlled Fury's head with his lead hand)

    And the second KD happened because Fury dipped, but stayed in place. He should have taken a step back or smothered Wilder(while dipping). Fury´s trainer even told him not to stand in front of Wilder.

    Fury made a few errors and paid for it. The fans calling for him to stop with the head movement are dumb as rocks. What is he supposed to do, stand tall in front of Wilder? :facepalm:
     
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  7. Heavy_Hitter

    Heavy_Hitter Active Member Full Member

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    Fury is levels above Wilder, but hes not stable and we don't know which Fury is going to show up
     
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  8. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    More room for improvement on Wilder's end. Wilder barely altered the trajectory on his punches through most of the fight, but still managed to score two KD's and stay close with the better technician during many of the other rounds. It might be ugly, but if he can work of the jab and throw a few straighter punches, DW stands a better chance of bagging closer rounds through harder punching, even if he fails to put Fury on the mat.

    I don't think Fury can bring all that much more to the table than he did the first time around. Better conditioning, maybe...But he wasn't that far removed from his best fighting weight and didn't really show much regression in terms of technique from the Klitschko contest.

    DW, I think, has the potential to do more and have more consistent success. Whether that happens is a different story...But that's why a lot of people are pegging him to win a rematch.
     
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  9. Ukansodoff

    Ukansodoff Deontay plz stop ducking Joshua. Thank you. Full Member

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    People seem to fall into the thinking that Wilders glove only needs to touch Furys head once and its all over. With that power if that were the case Wilder would of never seen anything beyond 4 rounds. You still gotta land it right and the better the oppo the harder it is to do. If Wilder had shown at any point in 41 fights that he is willing to learn and listen and be smart in any way id maybe give him the edge in the 2nd one but hes still really really basic and i just cant imagine him coming in trying anything different other than going for the kill every opportunity he gets and losing every round until he does.

    Its harsh to say Wilders game plan is to just land a lucky punch but its not like he sets them up. Quick hands, a sharp eye and lethal power. Its not going to win him rounds at this level but it does give him a good chance of landing something big. To be fair to Deontay the few things he does well is enough to make him dangerous at every single moment of every single round of any fight he is in.
     
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  10. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Stipid, stupid, stupid! Id say "wrong", but you are actually partially right, you just contradict yourself and get the conclusion wrong. As you yourself admit, both times Fury got nailed, it was from a dipping related manuever. Do you just think that was a coincidence? No, I (and others) had noticed he was leaving himself vulnerable with that throughout the fight and he finally got caught in the latter rounds. The first one he should have just clinched and imposed himself (and his massive weight advantage) over wilder and the second he should have retreated back. When he did those two things during the fight, Wilder never looked in any danger of nailing him.

    And as for drews claim that Wilder has more room for improvement? Thats just devoid of a factual basis. Fury adjustmwnts are much easier to make than Wilder: A get in better shape B dont dip as much C clinch and retreat more D throw a bit more. Very easy and simple adjustments comparatively.
     
  11. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Fury will probably come in a little lighter for the rematch and Wilder will probably come in a little heavier.

    Fury knows Wilder can hurt him and put him down, and Wilder knows he can hurt Fury and put him down.

    Fury fought a brilliant fight last time and was very busy. It will be hard for Fury to fight EVEN better the next time. I expect him to fight about the same way, just a little quicker.

    Wilder fought a tentative fight last time. He admitted he was nervous. Didn't let his hands go. Wilder could improve a great deal on his last performance. Despite that, he nearly won by Ko.

    As always I hope for a great fight. My belief is that we'll see the same fight but sped up. Fury will be a little lighter and faster, Wilder will be a little heavier and busier. Fury will take the lead again, but Wilder will stop him sometime before the tenth.

    But who knows, really. I just hope it's as good or better than the last fight.
     
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  12. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Fury might get into slightly better shape, throw a little more, and maybe try to clinch more in close...But if Wilder improves his conditioning, throws more, makes a point of working off the jab, and throws straighter punches Fury's task becomes harder...especially if Fury backs straight out like he did the first rime around. Wilder is still capable of performing better than he did against Fury the first time and, if he does, it becomes an interesting fight.
     
  13. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    While you are right Wilder does have more room for improvement, that's because he did so badly in the first fight. He won maybe 3 rounds out of 12, so he needs to be 100% better to perhaps get a draw, while Fury basically had 2 bad rounds, he improves 17% he shuts out Wilder.

    So yeah he has more room to improve but he also needs to improve far more than Fury to swing the result his way. That is of course if we get fair judging. In reality Wilder may only need to win a round or 2 more and he wins a UD, so even a slight improvement maybe enough for him to win a controversial decision.

    But lets be optimistic and say we get fair judging who do you think wins the guy who has to be at least 100% better or the guy who has to be 17% better?
     
  14. destruction

    destruction Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I fancy Wilder to get the decision win the second time around, because I know that Tyson Fury cant knock him out so that leaves one likely outcome- it going to the judges cards. Fury is alot more switched on and alert and doesnt get caught by anything from Wilder too in the 2nd fight.

    Now as has been proven in recent US based fights, the judges dont become any less biased second time around. I think that Wilder will lose the second fight objectively scoring it on the cards, however I think that the judges scorecards will determine that he is the winner.
     
  15. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Well, I gave Wilder four rounds, and thought scoring five for Wilder was within reason. Nor did I think Fury was particularly dominant in many of the early frames (unless you count dropping the hands and shoe-shining the gloves as dominating), and really only won a handful of them by landing one or two more punches each round. If Wilder improves by even 50% on that performance, he can snag a couple more frames and win...or, land more consistently in order to set up a KO shot a little earlier.

    Basically, I see a less tentative, someone more polished Wilder beating the version of Fury that faced him the first time...and probably any version that faces him in the future. In order to prevent that. Fury will either need to be busier, and risk getting caught...and avoid making mistakes like backing straight out every time he engages. I don't see him doing that, given that there's are at least one or two points in each fight where he's done that.

    We;ll see how the rematch plays out...But I don't see Fury white-wash in the cards.
     

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