BJ Penn is better than GSP p4p

Im a huge Pen fan but he hasnt cleaned out the LWs like GSP has cleaned out the WW division.

Penn most certainly will but he hasnt.

 

St. Pierre-Penn 1 was clearly a 2 rounds to 1 victory for St. Pierre. And the second fight cleared up anything we need to know in a comparison between bj and GSP. GSP is way better conditioned, a better strategist, a much better wrestler, a better overall striker, a stronger and more explosive fighter. And his resume is better than bj's. Not to take anything away from BJ, who I consider the best LW in the world, and p4p #5.

No bj did not beat GSP once. bj is and always will be 0-2 against GSP, and its about time his nuthuggers accepted that fact.

 

This is a joke thread really. Penn has NOTHING on GSP, at ALL, nothing. Only Penn did better than GSP was he was a "young and fast bloomer". He blew his fuse so to say.
Not to take anything away from him but Penn didn't really advance that much in recent years(though still one of the best ever) while GSP is still getting better.

 

Of course a very strong case can be made for Penn ahead of GSP p4p. Actually I have him ahead. He has some accomplishements on higher weights which GSP hasn't and he has been totally dominant at LW while GSP got KO'd by Serra. That GSP is 2-0 against him doesn't count that much for me in a p4p sense since GSP is substantially bigger.

 

Uggh ok I'll take a stab at this. Here is what we know:

1. Penn, with the exception of some of his early fights (where I believe immaturity, cockiness and lack of motivation was the factor) has looked absolutely unbeatable at LW. He has finished the greatest lightweights in the world, and done it without putting himself in any real danger.

2. There are 5 fighters in the world who are head and heals above everybody else; Penn, GSP, Silva, Machida and Fedor. Penn is the smallest one, by far, but the only one to challenge two of them and take them both to decisions and even the rematch with GSP, Penn still made it 4 rounds when his corner threw in the towell, he wasn't stopped during the round.

2. GSP would beat Penn 9 out of 10 times and I'm sure they would all look like the rematch. He is much much stronger and more conditioned. Also, his strength and drastically developed ground and stand up game wears Penn down. You can see Penn was winded after the first round with him from stuffing the takedowns and fighitng in the clinch.

3. GSP has dominated every man he has ever faced, even the guys who have beat him or come close the first time (Serra, Hughes and Penn) were brutalized and embarrassed in the rematches.

4. GSP has, however, never challenged an elite fighter above his weight.

5. Penn's natural weight is 155lbs.

It is simple and obvious to put GSP ahead of him because a) GSP was so dominant in their rematch and b) GSP has been so dominant against the other WW's. But this is P4P and Penn has taken ALOT of undue criticism after his losses to Hughes and GSP. But until GSP steps up and fights Silva, hendo,Machida etc then we will never really know and be able to compare him fairly to BJ on a P4P level.

I give GSP the benefit of the doubt and keep him above BJ, but am very interested in seeing him try and win a fight when he doesn't have the size advantage, like Penn has done when he won the WW title from Hughes.

Fedor
Silva
GSP
Penn
Machida

 

:dead

 

Actually thats not true at all. GSP beat Penn because of his size.

Penn is just as skilled and much more dominant than GSP is at their respective weights. Penn is a 155 fighter, simple as that. And hes incredible at that weight.

To say Penn hasnt advanced in recent years is outrageous. Hell, if anybody hasnt advanced its GSP, the guy wins fights with one method and cant ever finish them. Penn will beat you on the feet and destroy you on the ground.

Only reason GSP is ahead of Penn in P4P is because GSP has essentially cleaned out the entire division. Penn really hasnt stayed at LW for very long because hes ventured outside the division. GSP hasnt. At LW, Penn still has guys like Tyson Griffin, Gray Maynard, Frankie Edgar who are all top flight LWs to fight. However, none of them have any chance against Penn.

 

Can we throw the stupid Machida/Penn fight out the window for ****sake? It was a carnival fight that didn't mean anything. Penn simply being in the ring with Machida four and a half years ago isn't anything like him actually challenging a champion light heavyweight.

Also, “GSP only beat Penn because of his size” is a bunch of crap. He showed superior quickness and range of techniques on the feet and once on the ground PASSED PENN’S GUARD AT WILL. How many times did Hughes pass Penn’s guard? Isn’t Hughes bigger than Penn? In terms of mma grappling technique (not just takedowns) GSP is way ahead of Penn. If GSP was closer to Penn’s size then he wouldn’t have totally owned him and ground him into the floor the way he did, but I didn’t see anything in the rematch that made me think he wouldn’t win anyway. When did Penn ever threaten with anything? It wasn’t like Fedor vs. Aoki where Fedor just shrugged everything off and powered out of it. GSP was never put in a position where Penn could do anything, and couldn’t even keep him in his guard, and then struggled to get back into guard.

 

Whats the problem dude? You don't think Machida belongs in the top 5, or you think he should be above Penn?

And to what you were saying with Penn having NOTHING on GSP, you're wrong. Penn is a better finisher, he's more tenacious and he has a better top game then GSP. Also he has heavier hands, and better reflexes.

GSP is a more diverse and dynamic striker, better wrestler, stronger and faster (although Penns hands are faster) and more athletic, with much better conditioning.

GSP is a pro athlete, Penn never made the transition and is still just a pro "fighter".

 

Nobody is saying GSP beat Penn strictly on size dude. But to say his size and natural strenght had nothing to do with it is very unfair and just wrong. I'm a huge fan of both and think of myself as neutral in this debate. It cannot be denied that GSP is MUCH bigger then Penn...

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GSP also is GREAT. He is a great ****ing fighter and any great fighter with such advantages over another will exploit them.

 

He beat him based on size, reach, strength.

This is simply not up for debate. Strength plays a very important role in grappling, not to mention GSP was greased like a male stripper.

BJ penn took down Kenny Florian and submitted him in less than a minute. Penn takes down top notch grapplers and makes them look absolutely stupid and he finishes them off.

GSP couldnt finish off a wrestler in Fitch and a decent grappler in Alves.

GSP crushed Penn like I expected. But Penn was 167lbs, lethargic and was fighting a guy with over 20lbs on him not to mention the vast difference in strength.

Theres a reason why Penn looks alot sharper at LW. Its because hes lighter.

Theres a reason why Pavlik looks alot better at 160 than at 166 or 168. Its because hes at his ideal weight. The handspeed difference was significant in his fights at MW and SMW.

 

Exactly not to mention, GSP probably gained another 15-20lbs after that weigh-in.

The difference in size between the TWO was MASSIVE. People need to understand that. It takes nothing away from GSP's win. GSP is fantastic but my god be realistic.

 

He beat Penn in every aspect. Quit fooling yourselves.

 

Ok fine. Nobody is debating that GSP beat Penn in every aspect. But if GSP fights Machida, I'm sure Machida would beat him in every aspect....but that doesn't mean he is P4P better. Same with if Anderson fights Fedor or Machida fights Fedor. Do you understand what P4P means?