BJ Penn or Nogeria, who's better?

If Ricco is tooling you at adcc...you are not Elite..Although Ricco is very very good. Nog cant even hang with Barnett...Its Josh who puts him on the defensive..

 

He did get very lazy..I remember him getting interviewed about 3 years ago post GSP fight and he mentioned that he's starting to love practicing juijitsu again

 

Big Nog has great BJJ but Penn wins this by a landslide. When was the last time Nog ever submitted anyone with a gogoplata

 

Two very...VERY different specimens...and styles. Yes , even styles. Even though both fighters are BJJ experts , both have a very different approach.

There's things that Penn wouldn't do and vice versa. For instance no BJJ pratictioner is willing (or capable) to take so much punishment just to slap a submisson.... That's Nogueira. He knows he can take it , and his approach can be very dangerous & way too risky for anyone else.

Penn avoids getting hit as much as he possibly can (like everyone else would normally do). Both are very technical but very different...Hard to compare imo. Only thing we can say is that both are concidered as elites in the sport of mma.

 

Well BJ's never done that either. :blood

 

Diplomatic answer but nah..Bjs better in pure JJ, I also think in MMA as well ..hes faced some brown belts in JJ like Joe Daddy and dominated them..great MMA wrestlers like Sherk and Hughes and did very well...No one has even dominated BJ on the "ground" unless you count his loss against MAtt when he was clearly injured. Many felt Josh beat Nog and had Nog in an ankle lock before being saved by the bell.. Hes not elite in JJ..He seems that way because for a big guy hes unbelievable in subs..but then again not many heavies are great in subs or sub defense either. Werdums ahead of him in BJJ

 

Well he did have Hughes in a DEEP omoplata

 

I also think that Werdum is better in bjj...Btw , i wasn't trying to be diplomatic. It just seems to me that Nogueira is willing to put a lot of things on the line just to slap a submission... I'm just concluding that he's a very special case.

In the sense that his approach is too risky. But since he knows he can eat bombs , i find it hard to compare him to Penn. (or to most BJJ experts)...

Yeah i remember that fight. But Barnett still won didn't he ?...by split decision , he could've subbed him earlier (with that ankle lock...he had him but nog was saved by the bell..)... But it's a bit irrelevant now anyway since he still won his rematch by UD.

 

Penn has better PURE jiujitsu but I think Nogueira is the best submission fighter when doing MMA.

 

If you want to take it from a pure statistic point of view -according to Sherdog fight finder - BJ Penn has 5 submission victories whereas Nogueira has 19 submissions on his record.

Penn is so naturally talented - that he doesn't have to rely on pure technique because his talent pulls him through. Nogueira is big - but aside from that he has to rely on pure technique to win fights.

 

I think Nog's subs make him seem the more prolific BJJ fighter, because he relies almost purely on his Jiu Jitsu. He's a Judo blackbelt and I don't think I've ever seen him toss anybody, he doesn't seem to have great balance on his feet like I expect from Judokas.

Penn on the other hand has bricks for hands, great balance. Don't always get to appreciate what he does because he makes things look very easy when he's at his best.. While I guess he is the better Jiu Jitsu player, it certainly doesn't seem like it since it isn't always on display in his fights. He maintains his balance better than any Jiu Jitsu fighter I have ever seen.

 

Nogs BJJ is better, but Penn is probally the most well rounded fighter in the world right now. He is better than Silva, Fedor, Faber, St Pierre, and Torres.

 

Talk about overrating...

 

Heres the hierarchy of best pure JJ practitioners in MMA

MArcelo, Roger, JAcare

Maia, Cruz

Shaolin, BJ Penn, Werdum

rest

..Out of all these elite BJJ guys BJs the best in MMA

 

completely agree, you're talking about a guy who won the mundials after three years of jiujitsu, bj's use of jj in mma is more of a deterent, he likes to strikeand he can keep it standing because too many are scared to actually engage him on the ground and rightfully so, nog is almost the opposite in teh fact that he does have good standup but would rather attack on the ground, prime exacmple of that would be when he pulled guard against silvia