BJJ is now being relegated to the 3rd or even 4th best discipline.

Depends on their level of submission. Remember no gee bjj is a discipline within a discipline. Scoring in MMA is by design in favor of a wrestler, who gets points per takedown. BJ vs. Edgar is a good example, Edgar scores a takedown, BJ controls the ground game by controlling the left arm and threatening with a possible gogoplata, gets to his feet due to superior positioning from his back.. He gets no points for getting back to his feet or controlling from his back, rather Edgar gets a point for the takedown, and had he been able to force the fight on the ground, he would have been given points for controlling the fight on the ground even if he was always defending from subs.

Because scoring is like it is, BJJ is at a disadvantage. Yet, there are still guys like Maia who continuously, actively seek the sub. In Maia's fight, had he attempted and failed to land something like 3 subs per round, had dominant position from his back to the point where it allowed him to dictate where the fight went *to his feet or on his back* His opponent would have won the fight had he scored 10 takedowns.. The emphasis on a takedown score is such a huge advantage to the wrestler.. The other thing with them, the sweatier guys get, the harder it is to land them. So, very limited ability to use clothing for friction, though we see guys like Sotropolous and the japanese kid using magic pants and certain leg wear to help with the friction, and this is somewhat frowned upon by some.

This is why I say Judo is the natural counter to wrestling.. Judo is all based dominating the clinch, utilizing a guys takedown attempt and turning it around on him so he ends up on his back. If you shoot on a world class judo guy, likely you end up on your back.. A very strong wrestler, much stronger than a Judoka fighting for a body lock could go either way due to good technique. Judo is very effective against neutralizing grecco. I'm not saying better in the clinch than Grecco, more like they cancel one another out, but with many sweeps and throws which equate to takedowns from the clinch.. Takedowns from the clinch = points.. Neutralizing, or countering shoots= opportunity in the standing clinch. This is why Judo is the natural counter to wrestling.

But, mixed martial arts, due to scoring should be called something like mixed wrestling and martial arts due to the scoring. Its just set up to give wrestlers a huge advantage.. Something should be done about takedown scoring.. If you take a guy down and he controls from the back, then there should probably be no points awarded unless its a slam or a throw. Where the slam or throw itself inflicts damage.

Point of the takedown is to take someone where they are at a disadvantage.. If you cant show they are at a disadvantage, you fail.

 

The point is, he wouldn't have been given any sort of credit for attempts. At least if you control a fight from a position standpoint, from top or bottom, it should be accounted for is what I'm saying. I'm not saying BJ looked great off his back, I was using it more as an example. You can do certain things from your back to take the fight where you want it, you can sit there and try to nail a sub, or use a certain hold to get back to your feet, either way you are at that point in control of where the fight goes, and that should mean something on the scorecards, but it doesn't.

and yeah, Aoki's magic pants.. People talk **** about them, but then its just a tool used for submissions, to get friction. I see nothing wrong with it, I actually like it. Same with Sotropolous, or however his name is spelled. He uses ace pads and **** for better leg friction.. Why couldn't a guy wear a body suit if he is a sub guy?

As for Judo, I'm telling you it really works. But, you generally have to be so incredibly good at it, and uncanny with the timing that very few people are good enough. As a discipline, it should be promoted and used more as a counter to wrestling is what I am saying.. There isn't really a counter to someone grabbing ankles, but when freestylers go for a double or single, they likely end up on their back against a talented Judoka.

 

Chael Sonnen was discussing his fight with Silva recently on a political talk show on the radio of all places (the Mark Levin show - Chael is a conservative and very articulate and well-spoken). He told Levin that main two things you want to avoid to keep from being caught in a sub are - #1 Don't let your hand touch the canvas for too long. #2 Don't let your opponent grab hold of your wrist.

 

This is an incredibaly ignorant post, you obviously have never rolled with a black belt, or even brown. Basic BJJ knowledge will not save you against an experianced BJJ player, trust me on that.

Also don't you think the fact that submissions are getting harder is because everyone's getting good at BJJ? The guy with only basic BJJ knowledge will never be a champ, hell Lesnar has even displayed some good textbook BJJ.

 

this is exactly how I feel, just written a lot better:deal

good post achilles:good

 

the only problem is the ufc is a american org changing the rules might just make it even harder for americans to win.

less wrestlers =less american competitors = less ratings in us= less money.

cash rules brah!

thier are tons of Judokas in MMA (mostly in japan) havent really seen them use it to throw wresters on their backs- perhaps you have koa?

 

sambo comes from judo does it not?

combat sambo is modified judo with strikes.

not an expert on the subject but thats basically how it is.

plus fedor also has a judo background.

 

Judo is defensive and utilized more from the clinch. The shoot itself is even to the wrestlers advantage because if they are on their knees, the standing opponent cant kick or knee their opponent. The best anyone can do is stuff and look for positioning after a stuff.

In America, wrestling has taken off in gyms and such because of MMA. It has been around of course forever before MMA, but it's popularity has been pumped heavily due to success in MMA. It doesn't HAVE to be this way.

Again, I have already said the problem with Judo is emphasis Judo, and not necessarily Judo that transfers to MMA. If we had more of the better practitioners honing and focusing on Judo in MMA, we would see more dynamic Judokas utilizing throws and tosses. These days we see more things like body lock takedowns and trips. Also, you don't see a lot of sloppy takedown attempts against Judoka's.. You rarely see a Judoka fall prey to say a single leg trip, or get man handled in the clinch. You almost never see it. A stuffed takedown usually leads to a wrestler holding onto a leg, or in the clinch trying to improve position, again in a situation like this the Judoka matches up extremely, extremely well.

Now, imagine if you get a Judoka with great takedown ability and who learns great shoots? This would be everyone's nightmare, because the discipline is really never used offensively, but it could be. There are a lot of great wrestling gurus who work day and night on wrestling in MMA. If you had just half of those numbers teaching judo for MMA, and not Judo for just Judo, you would think differently about the discipline.

 

You aren't crazy. Mixed martial artist Jeff Joslin agrees with you and so do I. I prefer the boxing stance and hands with Muay Thai added on top. Me and Joslin like yourself prefer the defensive abilities and they more advanced footwork. Check Joslin out, good fighter.

 

i dont think any1 will ever just willingly go into maia's guard ever! unless he is almost done and can not do anything! its 1 thing sitting in bj's guard but sitting in maias is just plane stupid!

 

This.

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wrong on both counts.

1. I've rolled with many black belts.

2. Contrary to your assertion, Basic Bjj knowledge will save you from an experienced Bjj player, look at both the bj Penn Frankie Edgar fights, also look at both bj pen vs Gsp fights and bj pen vs Matt hughs 2. Look at every fedor fight vs any Bjj fighter(with the exception of the last one.). Look at Mir lesner 2 as well.

submission are getting harder because people are starting to understand that a having a good base ( I.e wrestling or basic Bjj) > basically all Bjj submission attempts. A guy with basic Bjj knowledge is a champ. Frankie Edgar? Matt hughs? Brock lesner? Lol.