Black lightweights of the 20s?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by WhyYouLittle, Aug 8, 2012.


  1. WhyYouLittle

    WhyYouLittle Stand Still Full Member

    1,372
    21
    Jul 13, 2012
    Can anybody enlighten me on this? We know the color line was alive and strong in the 20s (maybe stronger than ever), and we know that the LW division of the era was bursting with talent, so it wouldn't have been difficult to overlook dangerous black lightweights those days. Besides whatever was left of Jack Blackburn (was he fighting as a lightweight then? I don't even know that. Not that it matters much, since he had only had like 6 or 7 fights from 20 to 23) I don't remember hearing or reading anything about any black lightweight of the 20s. Is there any good ones I could read about?
     
  2. Pachilles

    Pachilles Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,294
    28
    Nov 15, 2009
    In the KKK era, there was less incentive to compete, knowing you could be 'justifiably' ducked and would never get a chance to be a champion no matter how hard you tried. Plus, the threat of being lynched if victorious. Plus, biassed judging.

    This along with all the other diasadvantages it creates, is the reason for a relative lack of talent post-Johnson.
     
  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,590
    27,256
    Feb 15, 2006
    Th lightweight division of the 1920s was a predominantly white era. There was a lot of black lightweight talent both before and after this period, but this was a place where it simply wasn't particularly strong.
     
  4. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

    42,723
    269
    Jul 22, 2004
    I think Benny Leonard did beat a decent black contender or 2, although I'm not sure if there's any he missed

    Kid Chocolate was the greatest black FW/LW of the decade. Stylistically quite similar to one Floyd Mayweather Jr
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,015
    48,114
    Mar 21, 2007
    I really am not patronising you when I say watching you mature into one of the better posters in Classic has been a real pleasure. You still drop the occasional clanger -who doesn't- but you've definitely crept onto my "must read" list over the past two years.
     
  6. Vic-JofreBRASIL

    Vic-JofreBRASIL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    23,081
    5,402
    Aug 19, 2010
  7. WhyYouLittle

    WhyYouLittle Stand Still Full Member

    1,372
    21
    Jul 13, 2012
    Thanks a lot, guys. It's just crazy that in the prior decades you had Blackburn, Gans, Holly, then in the 20s, among dozens of great lightweights not a single one of them is black. I mean, you'd think those monsters would inspire a whole new generation of black lightweights to lace gloves.

    Yeah, Kid Chocolate was awesome. If he wasn't a FW (where he has to be rated beside Pep, Driscoll, etc.) he would be way more celebrated today.
     
  8. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,590
    27,256
    Feb 15, 2006
    There are a lot of talented black fighters in that period, and many of them become champion, but for some reason there seems to be a derth at lightweigha nd welterweight.
     
  9. WhyYouLittle

    WhyYouLittle Stand Still Full Member

    1,372
    21
    Jul 13, 2012
    Thanks Vic. Pretty handsome record, he has. And he did fight some top white contenders. I'll look it up.

    I was just trying to measure how wide the color line had become following JJ. With all the talk regarding Dempsey and Wills and considering the amount of talent in the division at that time I just wondered if there was yet another group of 'shadowboxers' lost in time.
     
  10. Lord Tywin

    Lord Tywin Guest

    Benney Leonard took on his two top black challengers back to back and knocked them both out inside of two rounds.
     
  11. Surf-Bat

    Surf-Bat Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,736
    97
    Jul 20, 2010
  12. WhyYouLittle

    WhyYouLittle Stand Still Full Member

    1,372
    21
    Jul 13, 2012
    Yeah, and that's what bugged me. You hear of at least one or two top black fighters in most of the divisions of time, yet I didn't know of one in the most competitive of them (possibly of all times). You add that to the amount of discussion around the color line and, you know... I had to wonder.
     
  13. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    18,285
    400
    Jan 22, 2010
    Probably the best black lightweight those days was Leo johnson who had a great winning record...Benny Leonard gave "the Harlem Hotshot " Leo Johnson, a shot at the Harlem A/C in which Johnson performed an unpardonable sin..Just before the handshake Leo Johnson mussed up Benny leonard's carefully combed hair to upset Leonard who proceeded to
    Flatten Leo Johnson in the very first round...Leonard was very vain about the fact that he would finish every bout with his hair still combed as he entered the ring...One week later Leonard gave Eddie Dorsey another black lightweight a shot and kod Dorsey in the 2nd round...Today most people don't realize the awe and regard Benny Leonard was held in by the boxing fraternity...He was a smaller edition of the later Ray Robinson, virtually
    unbeatable as a lightweight...And he ONLY fought the very best contenders
    and allowed many to last the distance, so he could get a rematch...
    The great Bennah, as he was known...
     
  14. WhyYouLittle

    WhyYouLittle Stand Still Full Member

    1,372
    21
    Jul 13, 2012
    Thanks SB. That kinda covers good part of the period I was interested in. Mid teenies to the mid 20s.

    :patsch

    That's right. Everybody knows that story. I'm the one too stupid to realize he was black (guy's name is freakin' 'Harlem Hotshot' and I'm here wondering about a black lightweight. pffft). Didn't know he had that good a record though. Well it's his fault. If he hadn't pissed Benny off, he might have had an actual fight and been remembered more as a boxer than a historical boxing anecdote. Damn Benny had a way of eclipsing people though, didn't he? Thanks burt.
     
  15. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

    56,138
    10,556
    Jul 28, 2009
    Dark Black Joe Gans, Black Irish Joe Gans, Jamaican Joe Gans, Louisiana Joe Gans, Mississippi Joe Gans, Teeny Joe Gans, Giant Joe Gans, So-so Joe Gans ("Hey, So-So Joe! He's just so-so but we wanna see mo' and mo'!" popular commentator Skip Scampsky could be heard shouting), Low Joe Gans, Down Low Joe Gans, Phantom Joe Gans (only boxed in dark exhibitions but Ring-ranked #8.5), Missouri Joe Gans, Big Daddy Joe Gans, Superfluous Joe Gans, Joe Gans IV, Joe Gans VI, Joe Gains (also known as MAWB Joe Gans or longer Might As Well Be Joe Gans), Kenyan Joe Gans, Ghanaian Joe Gans, Nigeria Joe Gans, Congo Joe Gans, African Joe Gans, South African Joe Gans, Funny Joe Gans, Baby Bobby Joe Gans, Middle-aged Joe Gans, Old Joe Gans, Country Joe Gans, Banjo Joe Gans, Joe Gans the younger, Senior Joe Gans, Junior Joe Gans, Petey Joe Gans, Bucky Joe Gans, Bad-tooth Joe Gans, One-leg Joe Gans, Bowie Joe Gans, No-Dice Joe Gans, Queen of hearts Joe Gans, Bicycle Joe Gans, Cotton-mouth Joe Gans, Unibrow Joe Gans, Army Joe Gans, GI Joe Gans, Green-Sleeve Joe Gans, Bucket-hole Joe Gans, California Joe Gans, California Joe Gans II, Young California Joe Gans and Sweet Potato Joe Gans were all pretty strong fighters that boxed at lightweight in the twenties who were black. I don't think Leonard faced any of them. :conf Was it the colour or the name? You decide.