Bob Baker was the highest regarded HW of the crop of prospects that included Rocky?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Sep 1, 2009.


  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    The following are some snippets from an October 1950 Ring Magazine article entitled The Baker Boy. At this time, Baker was 17-0 and had just trounced 220lb Sid Peaks, first in a 5 round KO, then on points, finding time to dispatatch Bill Weinberg in 4 rounds, another man who outweighed the 202lb (all time high, 224) 6'2 Bob Baker.

    "Combing the entire world, one probably couldn't name more than a dozen young HW's. whose possibilities for future headlines status would be regarded with even a faint dash of enthusiasm.

    Generally rated as the best of the "freshmen" who have been attracting varying degrees of attention of late are Roland LaStraza of NY, Rocky Marciano of Brockton; Rex Layne of Jordan; Frankie Buford of Oakland; Calarence Henry of LA, Cesar Brion of the Argentine, Jaack Gardner of England, Connie Rux of Germany - and Bob Baker of Pittsburgh.

    Of the lot, Baker shapes up as one of the likliest.

    The powerful 23 year old 205lb negro seems to have many of the answers for which the promoters and fans have been so eagerly hunting. He can box, punch, and has proven ability to survive rough going and fight back to win.

    Not since Louis came roaring out of the amateurs more than 16 years ago, to blas his way almost overnight into international prominence in the pro ring has any young HW risen to rapidly and in such spectacular fashion as Baker. It is only a year and a half since the Pittsburgher made his adent into the money ranks and his record to date embraces only 17 bouts, but he has already earned a place well up The Ring's rankings.

    ...

    Of his 17 outings to date, Bob has won 13 by KO and 4 by decisions. That happened to be the exact score poste dby Louis in his first 17 starts!

    ...

    ...it was felt that Baker had progressed to the stage where he could take a chance with a "name" opponent and Johnny Flynn, the Rochester veteran, was imported.

    It was Baker's 13th pro boutbut apparently the hex number didn't bother him. He KO'd Flynn in the 6th

    Despite Baker's sensational string of wins, there was some doubt about his ability to take it. Anybody can look good winning, but what about when it became tough? That was the question the fans wanted answered, so the promoters brought in the ringwise, dangerous Rusty Payne. Snd Baker proved he could take as well as give.

    The youngster started fast, dropping Payne for 9 in the first and repeating in the second round. But Rusty, surviving those tough sessions, came out to hurt Baker...the kid refusd to become discouraged and charged out for the fourth, outslugged Payne in a savage exchange and dropped the veteran for the full count.

    An even more serious test was supplied in Baker's next bout, and Battling Bob showed he could come back from near disaster and win. His opponent was the Louisville giant, Sid Peaks, who, if he cannot do much of anything elsei n the ring, certainly can punch. Teh fight had hardly gone a minute when Peaks connected with two thunderous lef thooks and Baker wnet crashing to the canvas. He staggered up at seven and managed to last the round. He was still unsteady at the start of the second, and another left hook sent him sprawling again. But Baker gamely fought his way out of trouble, and went to work on Peaks...[Peaks] was halted in the fifth."

    Chris Dundee on his charge: "I am biased, but I honestly believe Baker is the best young HW in the world. We're in no hurry however. We have plenty of time. Louis, Savold, Walcott, Charles and the other old-timers can have the stage to themselves a while longer. We'll be happy to play along with LaStraza, Marciano(!), Layne, Brion and that crowd. In another year we'll be ready to shoot for the title, and from where I'm sitting now, I can't see how we'll miss."


    They did miss. In fact the title shot never materialised. Baker seemed to struggle with his hands. He fought only twice in the first four months of 1951, and the July 1951 issue of Ring notes in an article about hand injuries: "Baker had come to NY with a kayo-studded record and showed that he knew how to handle himself in his fight with Elkin Brothers, Baker was a dissappointment in that he made little use of his vaunted right. This was caused by a damaged hand and, in fact the left was also bruised. Unless the hands can be made sound and strong again it is possible that a fighter who shows that he has the ability to goon to win the world HW title might wind up as an ordinary journeyman."

    Anybody know what happened with Baker's hands? Did they heel up or would he always struggle? Regardless, Baker was beaten by fellow contender Clarence Henry. Baker was streets ahead, stepped back with his hands down and got dropped by a perfect left hook. Baker would rebuild, beating Billy Gilliam for 3/4 and then Nino Valdes. But then disaster struck:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG8kmOgjSPY
    Stupid way to fight Sattersfield. Depressingly, that's the only footage of the man on YouTube, I believe, I think this fight was originally uploaded by SuzieQ. Anyway.

    Baker actually did a really good job of re-building once more, after losing to Moore in his next fight, coming back to beat Layne THREE times and then Valdes again, before being eased out of the title picture after losing twice to Tommy Jackson and then Harold Carter.

    He looks like he fights to dumb to trouble Marciano anyway, but the fight would have been fun!

    I think it's interesting that he was rated highest, or amongs the highest, on his way up but that he never got his title shot. His inconsitancy cost him I guess, although I did read he was #1 contender for a spell, until the Jackson debicle.
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I just noticed he beat a young George Chuvalo in 57! Anyone know anything about this fight?
     
  3. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I've heard people suggest that Al Weill was apprehensive about matching Marciano with big, tall guys like Bob Baker and Nino Valdes. In one Marciano biography I read it says Weill had to be convinced to match Marciano with Johnny Shkor, and only did so after Walcott flattened Shkor in 1 round.
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    So Unforgiven, you'd consider it a dangerous fight for Rocky? Obvioulsy you'd favour Marciano to outlast Baker even if it was a tough one?
     
  5. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    In a documentary I saw, George Chuvalo talks about how he was over-matched early in his career by enthusiastic backers and put straight in with top-level fighters in main event fights. I think he mentions Howard King, and how King amazed him by rolling with punches and protests he was matched with guys even Marciano's people had avoided.
     
  6. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I dont know if it's a dangerous fight. I suspect Rocky would just beat him up like he did everyone else.
    :lol:

    I think it's reasonable to believe Al Weill would have a problem with it though. Many accounts have Weill painted as reluctant to match Rocky with the biggest fighters, and worried about matching him against the best fighters unless necessary. Then again, that's Weill's job, and he did it very well indeed.
     
  7. My2Sense

    My2Sense Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Although Baker scored some decent wins over his career, he reportedly looked like **** in a lot of them, particularly his post-Moore ones. His 2nd fight with Valdez was supposed to have been an eliminator to determine a possible next challenger for Rocky, but it was one of those fights that ended up "eliminating" both fighters. That may have been why Rocky decided to retire, who knows.
     
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I wonder if this is anything to do with his hands though? It sounds like an excuse, but it's right there in the Ring report. "Baker was a dissappointment in that he made little use of his vaunted right. This was caused by a damaged hand, and, in fact, the left was also damaged."
     
  9. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It had nothing to do with Valdes size, it was his inconsitancy that cost him the title shot.

    Pulling a upset over Charles, having a win in a fight people felt the other guy won, than loseing to Archie Moore. I belive Rocky would have taking him size or not. Valdes might even got a title shot had he held onto the number 1 contender than just a few months here or there. Sure he was number 1 at the end of 54, and at the begaining of 55, but people forget that Charles rebound were Valeds failed to impress, than Archie beat him to end the number 1 contender matter.
     
  10. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Reluctant???

    Marciano defended the title 6 times, 5 times against the number 1 contender.
     
  11. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Valdez was the number 1 contender for something like 2 years in between 1953 and 1955, deservedly or not. I think Rocky could have found time to fight against him during that period when he defended his title against Ezzard Charles twice and Don Cockell.

    Nino did lose a crucial fight to Moore which is why I wouldn't say that Marciano necessarily "ducked" him but Rocky could have been a bit more active as a champion, granting more people their shot at the title.
     
  12. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Not 2 years, a few months here or there.

    He got the spot with a win over Charles. But shortly after that Charles beat Wallace and Shattefiled while Vades had a questionble desion over McBrain I belive. Charles regain the number 1 spot, and got the fight with Marciano.

    Charles did a impressive job the first time, he got the rematch.

    1955 rolls around, and Marciano takes on Cockell, while Vales was number 1 contender. But this fight was a breaker, Marciano all ready had wars with Walcott, LarSarza, and back to back battles with Charles. All champs gets a easy one, and this was the Rocks.

    While this is taking place, Moore beats Vales and gets his number 1 spot. He was not the number 1 contender 2 years in a row. Just number 1 a few months here and a few months there.
     
  13. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

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    Boy, Satterfield could punch.

    Good thread McGrain, had never heard of Baker before (apart from seeing his name crop up on Moore's record)
     
  14. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Brought this up in another thread but Cockell was a tune up after Maricano's nose was injured in the second Charles fight. The plan was to fight Valdez next but Moore spoiled that plan by beating him for the second time.

    If anything, there was a suggestion at the time that Moore was being ducked by Marciano as he had been calling him out for some time. Baker and Harold Johnson were also being considered as Rocky opponents, but Moore stopped both of them.

    In retrospect it would have been interesting to see Marciano against the bigger men of his day but at the time the fights just wouldn't have made sense. Not here mind you, but you occassionally see hack articles and criticisms of Rocky dodging Vades and Baker to fight an old former middleweight but that certainly wasn't the case.
     
  15. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I don't have the monthly ratings but in yearly ratings Valdez is rated number 1 in 1953 and 1954.

    Rocky had a 9 month break from the LaStarza fight until the first Charles fight, I think he could have fit Valdes in between.

    The best opportunity to make the fight happen was after Valdes KO'd top 10 contender Heinz Neuhaus in four rounds.