Bob Baker was the highest regarded HW of the crop of prospects that included Rocky?

Actually while Valdez was # 1, he never RETAINED the # 1 ranking the whole year, and in fact dropped the # 1 spot to Ezzard Charles for most of 1954.

Take a peek:

In feb of 1954 Ezzard Charles issued a Rematch challenge to Nino Valdez winner to get # 1 spot...NBA agreed. Since charles obviosely took Nino lightly first time. nino REFUSED the offer, and during this time Charles knocked out RATED contender Bob Satterfield and Colley Wallace, and after Nino's hometown robbery split decision win over journeyman archie mcbride, valdez LOST his spot at # 1 ranking.

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Only after Marciano twice beat Ezzard did Valdez regain the # 1 spot by the END of 1954. But from March-September of 1954 Charles was # 1 contender meaning charles was # 1 when he fought Marciano for the title, NOT valdez

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1. Valdes and Cockell---There wasn't that much space between them at any point, though. The August, 1955 Ring Magazine carried these ratings as of June 22, 1955:

Champion----Rocky Marciano

1-----Archie Moore
2-----Bob Baker
3-----Don Cockell
4-----Nino Valdes
5-----Hurricane Jackson
6-----Ezzard Charles
7-----Earl Walls
8-----John Holman
9-----Rex Layne
10----Heinz Neuhaus

So Valdes had fallen behind Cockell at this point. There is discussion in this issue of Marciano's next foe. Nat Fleischer mentions that the three contenders under consideration were Moore, Baker, and COCKELL. This is Fleischer's comment on the situation:

"Cockell and his admirers, particularly the British scribes, feel that he is entitled to another shot at Marciano's crown."

As for Baker---"Baker would be no better than 6 to 1 against Marciano. Perhaps, no betting at all."

And Moore---"It is quite certain that Moore would intrigue the customers more than would Baker."

And this conclusion about Moore and Valdes- The Ring, Aug, 1955, page 37

"Moore did not do himself too much good with his 15 round decision over Valdes. Had Archie scored a knockout, he would have commanded immediate attention for a Marciano shot."

Notice. Moore did himself little good just winning a decision over the #1 contender? This seems to me a devastating comment on Valdes. How much respect did Valdes command as the #1 contender? Apparently, very little. Considering that only two years earlier he had lost badly to Moore, Johnson, and Baker, that makes sense. Despite his high ranking, Valdes probably needed a win over Moore to make himself viable at the box office.

 

If you read all of my posts you would realize that I'm not even arguing that Marciano "ducked" Valdes. What I'm arguing is that he had clever management who hand-picked the right fights for him.

Weill admitted in the article I posted that he did in fact carefully choose the fights for Marciano and all of his fighters which basically proves what I'm saying here.

I'm not talking about anything that happened after the Cockell fight was made. I already admitted that Valdes was no Harry Wills who wasn't truly avoided by everyone, he just wasn't that great.

But Weill choosing Cockell over Valdes for the returning Marciano was a clear case of hand-picking the safer opponent.

"Valdes had beaten 4 top 10 ranked challengers in the past 3 years, 3 by KO's, while staying undefeated and being ranked number 1. I think that should have been enough to warrant a shot at the title.

I'm not going to say that Marciano ducked him, because Valdes was no Harry Wills, but he was a top ranked fighter who saw his title shot given to Don Cockell of England. There was really no other reason for it from what I can see aside from Cockell being a safer opponent."

I know he was. What I'm talking about is the the time Cockell was chosen over Valdes as the challenger for Marciano's title.

Obviously this happened after Valdes lost to Moore while Cockell had the courageous effort against Marciano. Valdes then went onto blow away Cockell in just 3 rounds and the ratings changed again.

In the early part of 1955 when neither had picked up a loss, Valdes was the number 1 and as disrespected he may have been, no one thought of him as a "harmless tub" unlike Cockell.

Now this is entirely different from the tax comment. Valdes was indeed not a draw or a big money fight (unlike Moore) and would have probably been a fight of similar interest as the one against Cockell.

Again, Weill had money, legacy, risk and rating in mind when he made the fights. Valdes had a high rating, was somewhat of a risk, was not a draw nor much of a legacy fight either. Cockell was not as highly rated but he presented no danger.

 

So when Ali fought Chuck Wepner, Foreman was denie a title shot right???


Evey Champion is allow a easy fight here or there, some do it more than others. Out of all of Rocky's title fights, he only had one easy fight, means a lot imo.

Dempsey, Louis, Ali and even Tyson had more easy fights pick than Marciano.

 

Ali had already beaten Foreman and he also defended his title 4 times the year he fought Wepner (giving title shots to Ron Lyle, Joe Bugner and Joe Frazier). Not sure if that's a great example to use.

Rocky was allowed an easy fight, I'm not denying that, all I'm doing is prove that Marciano did in fact have a manager who hand-picked fights for him and the Marciano-Cockell fight is a clear example of that.

Weill had stated that he considered fighting either Valdes or Cockell and ended up with Cockell, in my opinion quite clearly because Cockell was the easier opponent of the two.

As I've stated numerous times I have no criticism of Marciano's record aside from him fighting Cockell instead of Valdes and maybe him not being as active a champion as he could have been.

What I'm saying is that he had a manager who carefully chose any contender Marciano faced. Weill admitted this much himself in an interview I posted. He did not match Rocky with anyone unless the fight made perfect sense, for example when Moore had to basically clean out the division of its contenders and do a publicity stunt by fighting a middleweight champion after having beaten the top heavyweight contender. Even then Weill wanted to fight Bob Baker rather than Moore.

This is the same man who said Clay should "duck" Sonny Liston.

The closest Charles came to separating Marciano from his title was by throwing an elbow at his nose. That was surely not a risk that Weill or anyone else were taking into account.

 

Lets assume that Weill underestimated Charles when he matched with him for the first time.

After the first Charles fight I think Weill would have to have concluded that Charles was the most dangerous challenger out there for his boy.

He could have let the result of the first fight stand because it was not an SD and to my knowledge no papers questioned the decision.

 

I think Marciano did pretty much what was expected against Charles the first time aside from maybe knocking him out.

He had trouble with a much more experienced former champion early on until coming back strong in the later rounds with his greater strength and stamina. The decision was not really that close but Ezzard with his showing and having become the first man to take Marciano the 15 round distance during his title reign deserved another shot.

The rematch was going well for Rocky, you could argue that he won every round and he knocked Charles down early, until an elbow split his nose. Marciano then dug deep and got Charles out of there.

 

Does a challenger necisarily earn a rematch by taking the champion the distance but unambiguously loosing?

 

If there's no one else of interest to fight for the champion.

 

I don't doubt the Cockell fight was to test Rocky's nose, but this also makes sense.

Archie Moore’s Remarkable Run at the Heavyweight Championship​

by B. R. Bearden​

......​

Marciano has two credible opponents set for the year, #1 ranked Nino Valdez of Cuba and #2 ranked Don Cockell of England (then current English and European heavyweight champion). His manager, Al Weil, decides the best way to make the cash registers ring is to have a fight in May and another one in the fall, perhaps September or October. They will take Valdez in Miami where he will draw and Cockell in California where he’d already fought a couple times and is somewhat known. It’s decided the best time to fight in Miami is in the fall so the Cockell fight will be set up first. Valdez is disappointed at missing the earlier fight and needs something to keep active and before the public. And now in true mongoose fashion, Archie lures him in.
While the Cockell fight is being promoted for May 16th, Moore works out a deal to fight Valdez in Miami 2 weeks before, on May 2nd. Valdez needs the money and perhaps doesn’t realize the tremendous risk he’s taking by touching gloves with Moore again; a loss could give Archie Nino’s upcoming title fight slot. Moore knows full well the implications; should he lose to #1 Valdez, he drops out of the Top Ten and probably never meets Marciano, but if he wins, how will he be denied? The battles of May decide the course of the fall heavyweight championship contest as Marciano TKO’s Cockell in 9 while Archie takes a 15 round decision from Nino.​

 

Now there's an answer that I've been looking for.

This could explain it. However I must point out that Cockell never fought in California previously. He had only fought twice in the United States, both times against Harry 'Kid' Matthews in Matthews' hometown Seattle, Washington.

 

Like it has already explained..Weill used Cockell as essentially a TUNEUP for a SCHEDULED fight with Nino Valdez in Miami in later 1955. Weill DID PLAN to fight Valdez, but wanted Marciano to fight a tuneup first(have you ever seen a manager consider a Ring Magazine # 2 a tuneup?) before a mega fight with Valdez. Weill chose to fight Valdez in Miami because of the large latino crowd, where it would draw there for Valdes. However here comes Archie Moore cleaning out the division, loudly protesting getting screwed over. Suddenly Weill has no choice but to include Moore in the mix. What does he do? he stages a FINAL TITLE ELIMINATOR the right for a GAURANTEED shot at marcianos crown in September of 1955. Moore vs Valdez. All Valdez had to do was beat Moore. He lost. Take note while Marciano did end up figthing Moore who won the title eliminator, Larry Holmes refused to fight his title eliminator winner Greg Page. I think this can be used as a criticism against Larry.

 

Holmes defenses as a measuring stick is not a good comparison. He fought the grand total of two number 1 contenders and just 1 > Shavers in 79.