He was considered a master boxer thats my point. I'm specifically taking issue with the assertion that the 20's boxers were technically inferior to the Louis era. ps. Mendoza has footage of Weinert.
i think boxing has evolved in terms of how fighters move and punch... do you not see a vast difference?
As to who would have won between a prime Ruby Robert Fitz at about 165 lbs and a prime Jack Dempsey tilting the scales at about 193 pounds, I must take the vastly underated on ESB, Manassa Mauler...Too frenetic in style and an earlier and bigger edition of Roberto Duran in vicious torque punching, bobbing and weaving defense, with snarl and all...Though a great American poet and boxing aficionado, Edgar Lee Masters who saw ringside all of Fitz and the rest of all the heavyweight champions most important fights ringside bouts including Joe Louis, and chose Fitzsimmons as the greatest of all. Whom of us truly knows. But ONE thing I do know is only on ESB, Jack Dempsey today by many posters gets the shaft stuck in him 90 years after his prime...For example, his 1 rd ko loss at the hands of a veteran Jim Flynn is always quoted by Dempsey naysayers on ESB, though it was very likely that it was a dive in 1917,BEFORE Dempsey hooked up with Jack Kearns and Dempsey's career took off with great success. A short time later Dempsey under Kearns guidance flattened Jim Flynn ALSO in one round... My point is this . When Dempsey career is evaluated today by some naysayers they always bring up this fight in 1917 to ridicule his place in history H2H against other heavyweights, whilst a Joey Giardello ,though a terrific MW was flattened by a neighbor of mine Harold Green, in Joey's 30th bout which I saw ringside at Eastern Pkwy Arena, a Henry Armstrong suffered an early ko, Sugar Ray Robinson was dropped on his back by an acquaintance of mine Artie Levine for about 17 seconds in 1946, a Joe Louis was kod by a Max Schmeling early in his career, a Benny Leonard was kod early in his career, a Joe Gans was kod by Elbows George McFadden but never has those great fighters been besmirched with their reputations as the great Jack Dempsey has been by some misguided posters, who bring up the Jim Flynn bout as an example of Dempsey's ineptitude...Bah, and not realistic I say...Well Dempsey has at least one devotee who thinks he was one of the toughest, roughest SOB heavyweights ever one one hell of a gentleman...
Dempsey should be favored. but reading about the fight that an aged Fitz gave to a prime Jeffries makes me think that Bob has a chance to make show of it.
MENDOZA SAYS: Fitz wasnt easy to stop by any means. From February 1890 to November 1905, only Jeffries stopped him in a near 15 year period. Durability is best judged when a fighter is hit, and during this time the likes of Choysnki, Sharkey, and Maher landed on Fitz. Many who lived in the times felt Fitzsimons was a better puncher than Dempsey and rated him higher than Dempsey. A cunning strategist in the ring, Fitz combined tremendous leverage on his blows with uncanny accuracy. I like Dempsey in the first third of the fight, and Fitz beyond round 9. 60/40 in favor of Dempsey. The truth is lesser men ( and punchers ) than Choynski, Maher and Sharkey had Dempsey on the floor. Fitz proved he could get up from a harder punch IMO.
The truth is prime Choynski,Maher ,and Sharkey were all light heavies, and Maher and Choynski had chin issues . Maher and Sharkey were crude wallopers Dempsey was not, he didn't throw wild, one at a time shots , he threw in combination ,short hooks with full power on them.Dempsey also had a much better chin than Choynski and Maher. If either had been as durable as Jack they might have topped Fitz , both had him ready to go before catching the lights out train. Fitz was dropped by a puncher nowhere near Dempsey's class,Corbett, and stopped by Hall and Dooley.
Sharkey and Maher today would be cruisers, not light heavies. Maher had a glass jaw, but he can punch. Tom Sharkey was an iron man. Fitz as I stated fought many punchers, and got up to win proving he could take a heck of a shot. As for Dempsey, he was Ko'd in 1 round by a washed up Fireman Flynn. A sloppy and hurt Firpo also floored him. Dempsey was rocked on the one solid punch that Carpentier landed and Carpentier never weighted more than 175 pounds. IMO, Fitz hit harder than all of these guys, and certainly could take Dempsey out. Dempsey was also down vs Sudenberg, a fighter with a known losing record )( 11-24 with 19 draws. ) and lowly KO% of 7.81%.
This is so amusing! Fitz was stopped in1890 by Hall and 9 years later by Jeffries he was stopped again by Jeffries in 1902. Stopped on retirement by O Brien in1905.That's three stoppages in a total of 14 fights . Now ,[this is the amusing part ,] contrast this with the man you say had a weak chin namely Jack Johnson . In a near 15 year period from Choynski in 1901 until 1915 against Willard over a total of 65,yes 65 fights, Johnson was not stopped at all, in fact he was only down ONCE and that was a highly dubious one! You talk about double standards? You invented them! Thanks for the laugh!:good
Just like your boy did just before he knocked out Sharkey? Talk about double standards ey ... :tong Jokes aside I agree with what your saying. Had Demspey lost another fight early like Lewis, then the criticism might be justified. I guess it's just a lazy way of justifying opinions on why they think he might lose a fantasy match up, when in actual fact it's pretty weak evidence. All it does is justify that the right punch at the right time could take out any fighter, but everyone already knew that right?
