Bobo Olson and Jake LaMotta

Who said lamotta was in his prime against Dauthille?

Klompton made it clear lamotta was past his prime already when he won the title and then Jake slipped even more after winning the title

 

Olson also had a very good win over Randy Turpin for the vacant title a couple of years after Turpin lost to Robinson.
I think the general consensus is that Turpin was on the slide then and his out of the ring lifestyle was catching up with him.
Is this a legitimate excuse or does it take something away from a good win for Olson against a man who had given Robinson all the trouble he could handle?

 

Horrible list then

 

LOL

 

I agree with you Lamotta isn't top 10.

 

Glad to c it's just not me then. He just doesn't make the cut in my book

 

I agree with your central premise, that Olson is underrated and Lamotta was underrated. I think Olson is viewed historically as a sort of lame duck because he had some bad kayos in his most high profile fights.

 

Even more horrible list

 

I'm probably a bigger Lamotta fan than you are. Lamotta was an ATG, but the middleweight division is way too deep for Lamotta to make the top 10. He is top 15-20 for sure. Lamotta fought them all, but he had a few bad losses and he didn't always show up in top shape. When he was on, he could beat the best of them.

 

I dont have any problem with LaMotta being outside the top 10. Its the deepest division in history. I also agree that Olson is somewhat underrated. But what gets me is all the boxrec warriors who look at names on a page and try to tell you LaMotta is overrated without understanding the ins and outs of his career while praising to high heaven guys like Zale and Cerdan who are so wildly overrated its sickening.
Lamotta spent years, YEARS, at the top of the ratings without getting a shot. And while guys like Bivins and Burley were making that claim when a war was on and the title was frozen LaMottas standing continued beyond that period. Instead he was passed over in favor of Graziano who was a mobbed up, protected fighter that didnt even fight a contender to get his shot. The guy was struggling with welterweights for gods sakes, and they werent even the best welterweights on the market. By the time Jake got to the Fox fight he was so jaded and frustrated with the sport he was at his wits end and ready to do anything just to get a chance to climb the mountain. The pure fact that a guy who was so opposed to playing ball and giving up a piece of his contract made those deals with the Fox fight and the Cerdan fight shows you how desperate he was. If you know anything about LaMotta and his near mania when it came to these hoods controlling the strings youd see that he was desperate to do what he did. Im not talking about the bull**** raging bull story, im talking about how all that actually went down. You combine that with the fallout of the Fox fight which further delayed his title shot and his feeling that he was never going anywhere in the sport and you can see why when he meets Vikki he pours everything into her and loses the drive he had previously. Joey told me himself that Jake stopped training right after he met Vikki. He was never the same after that. He got up for one last fight and that was when he finally got his title shot. Allen Rosenfeld who was ringside told me nobody thought Jake would beat Cerdan. They had all heard the rumors that he was finished. Then jake threw off his robe and the audience gasped because he was in tremendous shape. Nobody could believe it. He said shoulder or no Jake would have beaten Cerdan that night, that he was giving him a hellacious beating in the first BEFORE the shoulder injury (which Cerdan had used as an excuse in past poor performances) and all of this is supported by several of the writers ringside and can he seen in the film. The early films of LaMotta show a much faster, more dynamic, and “raging” fighter than the later films of a guy who looks lead footed at times. Lamotta was no longer LaMotta after Vikki but he had that last hurrah against Cerdan. After that he wasnt the same fighter. He was getting hy on toughness and experience.


Another thing about Villemain and Dauthille: those guys werent bums. They were very good fighters and lets remember that as much respect as Cerdan gets he didnt want anything to do with those guys. Asking why Jake didnt give Villemain a shot is silly. Cerdan never even proved he was the best middleweight in FRANCE much less the world. In regards to Jake supposedly refusing to give Villemain a title fight as was alledged in another thread lately: Remember, Jake was scheduled to face Cerdan in an immediate rematch. Jake was injured in training which delayed the fight then Cerdan was killed just before, scrapping the fight altogether. Nobody was more upset about that fight not happening than Jake. It also was to blame for his initial inactivity as champ. To tuneup he was signed to fight Graziano who was rated 6 or 7 by the NBA. This fight was pushed by the IBC who controlled boxing at the time. There was initially some belief that the NBA wouldnt sanction the fight because of Grazianos “low” ranking. Graziano, the story goes, didnt want to fight LaMotta and when he found out the NBA sanctioned the fight reporters who were present at the camp said he punched a tree and broke his thumb to get out of the fight. Tiberio Mitri was substituted and the fight was postponed a couple of weeks. When LaMotta beat Mitri he next signed to fight Dsuthille only two months later. Dauthille had defeated LaMotta before Villemain so the plan initially had been to fight Dauthille then Villemain. The problem was that while LaMotta was in training for the aborted Graziano fight Villemain lost to Robinson who made his intentions known to challenge for the MW title. The NBA asked the two fighters to have a rematch to determine the number one contender for LaMotta. Lamotta knocked out Dauthille in the fight of the year and three months later Robinson knocked out Villemain in his hometown. Two months after that LaMotta defended against Robinson who at the time was considered the most formidible fighting machine in the world. So claims that LaMotta was ducking this guy or that guy are ridiculous if you understand the context around which these events transpired.

 

This deserves a 2nd read and re post.

 

Waiting for you to respond to Klomptons piece


“Hudson”

The word is Lamotta grew so dejected over being the #1 contender for so long without a title shot that every so often he would underperform to try entice marquee fighters to fight him. This strategy are back to haunt him him against cecil hudson when he did just enough to win (so he thought) but the judges voted against him. He said he did this in about a dozen fights.

Watch the film. Take a look at the psychology/style he employed in the ring and his ability to play possum. He would often feign that he was hurt or exhausted, stumble back against the ropes and lure his opponent in. As the opponent unloaded, trying to stop Jake he would tire at which point Jake would explode off the ropes with a furious rally.