Bobo Olson and Jake LaMotta

"The famous LaMotta quote, whether true or not...: "You couldn't knock me down Ray, you couldn't knock me down", vs the 4th SRR vs Bobo fight anomaly, when the "lawyers/Govt" won: Paydays for both fighters were held up by legal action. Olson's estranged wife obtained a court order to tie up his share, and the federal government slapped an income tax lien against Robinson's share.

 

“Graziano on a roll”

Against who? 145lb men and ?? because it certainly wasn’t against any rated 160lb contender! Even the welterweights he fought weren’t the best welterweights of the era.

Graziano’s middleweight resume is an absolute joke! Name me the ranked middleweight contenders he defeated in 1946?

 

Gotta love the moving goal posts by Morbius. In one post Graziano was unrated, in another hes rated outside the top five. Boohoo. To say Lamotta was ducking the top guys is ludicrous. His rematch with Cerdan was postponed and then cancelled. This delay resulted in the longest period of inactivity to that point of LaMottas career outside of the suspension he got after Fox. As a result he had three tuneup fights during which he scheduled to defend against #6 or 7 Graziano. When Graziano bailed Jake defended against Tiberio Mitri who was rated #2, right behind Robinson. Two months later he defended against the #4 in Dauthille. When the #1 Robinson defeated the #5 Villemain in a fight ordered by the NBA LaMotta signed to fight Robinson two months later. So again, unless you are completely ignorant AND entirely ignore the timeline I find it hard to understand the criticism. But but butting about Burley is beyond ignorant because while Burley has become some false idol for the downtrodden fighter the only person calling for Burley-LaMotta, or Robinson or anyone else was Burley. Period. LaMotta was a money fighter who fought tough comp to get his rating. Burley needed him and not the other way around. Burley couldnt even headline in his own hometown without a more popular fighter as his opponent. Boring and uninspired were frequent descriptions of him. Nevermind that as LaMottas star began to shine Burleys increasingly dimmed. Had LaMotta defeated Burley instead of Williams (who beat Burley) my guess is you would be complaining that he didnt fight Williams. Odd shot at LaMottas war record. He was given a medical deferment unlike Sugar Ray Robinson who concocted a Walter White-esque fugue state in order to duck his time in the service... but hey, this is a LaMotta bashing thread on your part so lets grasp whatever straws we can. I just need to file away your righteous indignation at LaMotta almost defending against a #6/7 contender and then a #2 contender for the next time you are slavishly defending Dempseys defense against a dying Miske who hadnt won an important fight in years...

 

Does crushing 4 lbs north of Jr. WW, 46-2-2, Marty Servo, before taking on Zale for the MW crown in Rocky's next fight, count for anything?

1946-03-29 : Rocky Graziano 152 lbs beat Marty Servo 144½ lbs by TKO at 1:52 in round 2 of 10

• Location: Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, USA
• Referee: Arthur Donovan

 

LaMotta wasn't the most deserving of a title shot though. Dave Sands Holman Williams Charley Burley etc were also ducked. LaMotta hadn't done enough to establish himself as the outstanding contender

 

Nope. Servo was a welterweight. Graziano never defeated a ranked middleweight prior to fighting Zale.

 

I knew you wouldn't give Servo any slack for ending up face down after 2 rds with Graziano. lol.

 

If Graziano was trying to get a rating at WW its a great win but since when does beating a WW earn you a title shot at the middleweight championship that hasnt been defended in five years. Id say thats s pretty soft defense and pretty easy back door to a title shot. Servo had just three fights in the past four years, had never fought anyone as big as Graziano, and while his win over Cochrane might look impressive on paper it should be remember that Cochrane was coming off a KO loss, had been stopped in two of his last three, and had beaten only one fighter with a winning record in the past four years.

 

This argument that LaMotta had no obligation to face Burley because he wasn't a big draw is silly. In that case why is Zale wrong for fighting someone like Graziano for big paydays

 

The joke always was...."Graziano, the best MW in the WW Division."

 

I mean what does it have to do with graziano getting a MIDDLEWEIGHT title shot?

 

Sorry pal but LaMotta beat Williams. He was a top ten rated fighter YEARS before Sands was. 2 months before LaMotta won the title Sands lost to the best fighter he had yet faced, Yarosz, LaMotta had beaten Yarosz 5 months earlier. Neither Sands nor Williams deserved it more. And Im going to blow your mind here but Burley wasnt even ranked in the top ten.

 

Thats not what I said. Dont twist my words to suit your argument. A contenders only obligation is to move up, not defend his position by fighting down. The champion, at the top, has an obligation to fight his top contenders. LaMotta, nor anyone else rated above Burley, was never under any obligation to face a lower rated fighter who couldnt draw flies when they were contenders. So why exactly if LaMotta is fighting fighters every bit as good or better than Burley in men like Robinson and Williams among others should he be obligated to fight Burley or castigated for the fight never happening?? Its ridiculous. As champion LaMotta was fighting the top guys, as has been illustrated. When Zale was champion LaMotta was rated above everyone including Burley. Zale looked the other way not for a few months while the dust settled but YEARS while he fought mobbed up smaller fighters with puffed up padded records. And thats after his title sat on the shelf for years. He had an obligation and he chose to take the path of least resistence. Check the facts. Zale fought half a dozen nobodies to tuneup after the war before defending against the unworthy graziano. Big money so fair game. He knocked graziano out, spent a year fighting nobodies and then rematched graziano. Then another year is lost where the title is frozen, both guys tread water while actual contenders wait, and another fight which zale wins easy. But somehow LaMotta is terrible because he wanted to erase the doubts about the Cerdan fight by beating Cerdan who was #1, then goes on to defend against a #2, #4, and #1 contenders? Sorry but that argument has no legs. Bringing up Burley is just laughable considering he totally fell out of the ratings as all of this was playing out.

 

ok...disregard.

 

By the time LaMotta got to Williams he seems to have slipped considerably I would say Burley was better certainly than that version of William's. As far as LaMotta goes I don't think he was ducked when guys like Belloise Abrams Sands didn't get title shots