Boiling down

Discussion in 'British Boxing Forum' started by Twentyman, Dec 29, 2020.



  1. bbjc

    bbjc Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I dont quite get it...at 168 lbs...hes been fighting there being a weight bully for years to the point he cant even really fight there anymore. And yet he cant make the jump up to 175.

    Bearing in mind if there was anyone with the dimensions to go up to 175...its smith.

    Makes you wonder if he is/was good enough to begin with. If you need these sort of advantages to be competetive.

    Be interesting to see what he does next tbh. Retiring will really be a waste of a career.

    Personally think that fight showed the difference of someone on something versus someone not on something more than weight being the issue...but who knows.

    I,d be tempted to get on something myself if i was smith. Totally against drug use in boxing...but how long can you go on trying to beat these guys that can hurt you without really putting much into their punches. We,ve seen hard punchers through the years...i do think some of these guys nowadays are breaking you down with every punch that lands now tho. Dont even need to be swinging anymore. Thats unusual to me at that level.

    When say smith fought nobodies...a lot of these guys are practically part time fighters. Their training regimes are very different. Theirs a real reason these guys just cant hang with the full time guys etc. But guys like smith are training basically the same hours as guys like canelo. Twice/three times a day.

    Massive size advantage...and yet they cant stand with them without needing to back up from canelo,s arm punches as well. To me somethings not quite on the level playing field.
     
  2. tdf1974

    tdf1974 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It wasnt PEDs that smashed Smith to bits.....It was an Elite 160lb boxer fighting at a higher weight ,beating up a much bigger weight bully that all that shredding weight has killed.....

    Eubank was similar , huge weight bully who when he couldnt do it anymore went straight from 168 to 190 and got smashed to pieces
     
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  3. bbjc

    bbjc Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Eubank was similar and a weight bully yet lost by one point on two cards against carl thompson up at 190. 22 lbs heavier than where he fought. Thats not a good example bud...eubank was long in the tooth at that point...hard career behind him. Also pretty sure eubank was applauded by most after that fight because he fought so well...and took his licks in the process.
     
  4. bbjc

    bbjc Boxing Addict Full Member

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    We,ve all watched canelo in the early days. People say he was fighting at a weight he shouldnt have been fighting at. But show me another man thats went up in weight and visibly punches much much harder at the heavier weight like he has.

    Its true you will punch harder. But to the extent of canelo...thats not normal. Callum smith is seen as the bigger weight bully. You,ve alluded to that. Surely then smiths punching power will be awesome in this next weight class.

    What are they waiting for. I ve just watched canelo move up and punch twice as hard.
     
  5. Twentyman

    Twentyman You dog nonce! banned Full Member

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    It was a topic about Campbell that inspired this thread mate.
     
  6. Twentyman

    Twentyman You dog nonce! banned Full Member

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    Ha, no worries mate. Without sounding like Adam Smith, I noticed how skinny his legs where when he was doing the pads with McGuigan. He can make the weight, but he's not strong and durable at it imo.
     
  7. Terry94

    Terry94 15-05-20 Full Member

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    Lukey has never been a big puncher anyway so says a lot about Garcia's chin then it does about Lukey. But aye, he will probably retire now anyway he's 33 and if he moved up to 140 no way he beats Taylor and Taylor will beat Ramirez easily.
     
  8. EJC83

    EJC83 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Sounds harsh but I think it was over for Campbell at the top after the Linares defeat. Obviously he came again but never hit the levels necessary to beat the best. We'll probably find out later down the line that Garcia was on something to aid the weight loss but either way, Campbell is done and no man his height should be weighing that past 30
     
  9. Twentyman

    Twentyman You dog nonce! banned Full Member

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    Garcia has that youth on his side where he can get away with it...last night reminded me a little of Mungaia when he fought Liam Smith. He was absolutely huge on the night whereas Smith was still boiling down to the same weight he was at 10 years previous. He had no problem chinning Mungaia but couldn't put a dent in him.
     
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  10. murphman22

    murphman22 Active Member Full Member

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    I don't think that it was necessarily Campbell trying to be a weight thief or gain an advantage for sticking around at 135. It may have been to some extent, but the problem for me is as much about UK boxers clinging on to titles/rankings at weight classes that they don't fit into anymore. Its far more prevalent than in US where boxers move more fluidly through weight classes to make bigger fights and to optimise performance. UK /European Promoters are obsessed with titles and use it as a method to market fights. Less so in the US where the audience in my opinion are more interested in the fight itself or one of the stars involved. Look at the list of UK fighters that have stuck at a probably unreasonable weight (off the top of my head) to protect a title or even a lofty ranking - Brook, Bellew, Yafai, Burns, Campbell, C.Smith, McDonnell etc. Kal Yafai for example was at 118 when in turned over in 2012 and still boiling down to 114 in 2020!

    I think there should be more responsibility on the promoter to try and encourage fighters to operate at the best weight. To make the point, how many headline Sky fights for example have been billed as eliminator/final eliminator/silver/intercontinental bouts. The punters might lap it up over here but I honestly don't think fans in US give a flying f*** about it.
     
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  11. aaaaa

    aaaaa Ash banned Full Member

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    Great post.

    Too much is placed on belts that mean nothing. Even full world titles, who cares really? People remember who won the fight not who won the belt. If you ask most people what belts Mayweather-Pacquiao or Canelo-Golovkin fought for they wouldn’t have a clue. People just want to see the best fighting the best.

    Fighters should fight the best fights possible at weights they feel comfortable at. The belts should be an added bonus.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2021
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  12. Jurgen

    Jurgen Pay Per Pudding Advisor banned Full Member

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    Andy Ruiz Jnr has promised that we will see a better version of him when he boils down to three chins, 4 tyres and smaller manboobs in 2022.
     
  13. bbjc

    bbjc Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I still reckon the americans and eastern europeans are on something or on something better than the rest atm.

    Always gonna take stick with unproven allegations. But theres a reason the brits do not want to move up in weight at almost all costs. Its a lot harder up there against naturally bigger guys etc. Somehow the americans or american based fighters are navigating the weights without too much problem. Canelo for example hits twice as hard nowadays. It doesnt quite translate the same when the brits move up for some reason tho.

    The question i,m asking is why not. If the brits are the biggest drainers surely moving up would or should help them more.
     
  14. murphman22

    murphman22 Active Member Full Member

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    I just think it is a business model issue. It's easier for UK fighters to take eliminators/final eliminators/tune ups while they wait for the title shot, or big defence against a named opponent. The promoter plays on the fact that there is a domestic audience who want to see the UK fighter 'bring home the belt' and they have fanbases like football teams. It therefore makes the fighter's position with the governing body important that he is unwilling to give up him belt or ranking to move up in weight class. Its not always the case but its more likely occurrence in domestically. Look at Hatton, Calzaghe & Khan as examples of boxers who took themselves out of the UK bubble to move weight classes glamour fights. Calzaghe spent 13 years at 168!
     
  15. EJC83

    EJC83 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    If someone is genuinely comfortable at a certain weight it's fine, Golovkin for example, 38 and looking like he's making weight fine and in fantastic condition still, still banging people out, not long ago going the distance twice and finishing stronger than the clen'd up lad nearly 10 years his junior. At the height he is 160 is achievable. Of course dedication is key, once you get past 30 you can't live the way was Hatton did, it's unprofessional and just stupid. As mentioned above, Calzaghe spent years at 168 but he was making the weight fine, he lived the life, he had no choice if he was going to stay on top, he couldn't spar and had messed up hands, he had to do everything else he could to make sure he could perform and training like a nutter is what he did, a credit to the sport. It's when you see the McDonnell brothers, read stories about Lee Selby chewing up his food and then spitting it out, Callum Smith at 6ft 3ins with broad shoulders still trying to make 168 and you just think what the hell are you doing? How the hell can Lee Selby pack any power, have any energy if he's not eating? I wouldn't want to turn up to my 9-5 living that way, let alone get in a ring where my life and health and is at risk for 12 rounds, cameras everywhere showing this around the World, I'd want to be in the best possible condition I could be. The second you notice that the weight cut is damaging your performances you should go up, it's ridiculous to do otherwise, in my opinion.
     
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