Bon breaking...

Johnson wasn't hit much, so how could he say anything regarding Jeffries power? Jeffries fought no man bigger than him because there were no top ten heavies in his time over 220 pounds. So your criteria can't be used for anyone in the era. However, Goddard, Everett, Munroe Jackson and Long were near Jeffreis size ( 190-210 ). Each match was over quickly after multiple knockdowns. Jeffries owns the fasted title bout Ko...55 seconds. Jeffries stopped all of his title bout opponets, excpet for Sharkey, and an injury was to blame. Sharkey was all but out, and the fight is liekly a TKO in modern times. Sharkey was down once in the first fight, and down twice in the second and saved by the bell at least twice. Sharkey had a very good chin. Not stopping him doesn't mean you can't hit.

One should note that Jeffries record has no pork on it. He fought good fighters from start to finish. This makes his KO Percentage impressive. You don't have to change your mind, but you should consider what the following historians said on Jeffries power:

[SIZE=-1]Gilbert Odd said that Jeffries was the strongest of the heavyweight champions in both hitting power and build.

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]John V Grombach said Jeffries was a natural puncher who was so big and powerful that he could deliver damaging blows from an almost extended left-hand that did not have to travel more than a few inches.

Keith said, "Jeffries probably owned the deadliest left hook the prize ring has ever known."

Tex Richard who was promoting Dempsey at the time said[/SIZE][SIZE=-1], " Jeffries is the hardest hitter I ever saw. And that includes Dempsey"[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]H. Cooper said, "James J. Jeffries was one of the ring's indestructibles" and asserted, "Apart from having a punch that might have knocked a horse out, Jeffries' greatest asset was sheer patience."

There you have it. Rank them how you see fit. After reading quite a bit my conclusion is Jeffries belongs right up there with Demspey, Fitzsimmons, and Louis. A bit higher or lower is fine. But in the same ball park for sure.
[/SIZE]

 

This does raise some questions though. In competition, Jack Dempsey either wore five ounce Sol Levinson gloves (as he did with Willard), or five ounce Everlast gloves, while Jeff used two ounce gloves, to the best of my knowledge. Not having experimented with hitting or getting hit by gloves of these lighter weights, I can't say how they might impact on punching power, or the ability to take a punch.

Dempsey bombed out modern sized, world class heavyweights (not growth substance enhanced either). I've watched Jeff shatter Gus Ruhlin's rib cage (as I expect we all have), and Rickard could be correct about the supremacy of the Boilermaker's power, but we've also seen Dempsey send Willard hopping into the air with third round bodyshots (one of them is actually apparent on internet footage, something I had first thought could only be discerned on the movie film itself).

What's scary about Jeffries is that he had a dislocated left elbow going into the title fight rematch with Sharkey, an injury which had already resulted in two postponements. Unable to generate damaging power with his left, he inflicted all his bone fracturing damage on Sharkey with his right hand, all over the left side of Sailor Tom's face and body. To win a 25 rounder under hair singeing heat, with Jeff's primary left a neutralized weapon, against the most formidable challenger of the day, is one of the truly fabled achievements in boxing annals.

 

Jeffries fought men that for the most part HAD BEEN good fighters,eg you mentioned Jackson,he waw37 ,and dying of TB,Jeffries stopped him in 3,in Jacksons next fight JimJeffords beat him in 4 Jackson returned home ,struggled top a draw with a nobody and never fought again.nothing noteworthy there for the Boilermaker.Ruhlin fought Jeffries to a draw conceding around 25 lbs,and before you say Jeffries was anovice,as Janitor does,Ruhlin was having his 10th pro fight, ayear later Ruhlin was beaten by Kid McCoy who was never more than a super middle,thatsmae year Ruhlinwas kod in 1 by Sharkey,Ruhlin was stopped byJefries in 5 ,his corner threw in the towel between the 5 and 6th rds,the last round is available on U Tube.An acount of the Munroe fight is also available on the net,Munroe was under 6 ft and outweighed by 40lbs,he had had just 14 fights when he met Jeffries,Jeffries said he wanted to kill Munroe after being embarrassed by him during an earlier exhibition,he said the hardest punch he ever threw was during that fight ,it was the first one too ,a left hook that never landed ,and the momentum of which carried Jeffries of his feet down on to all fours as the punch missed, what skill!You say Jeffries record has "no pork in it",well I see a diet of well chewed meat,you mention Goddard as a win for big Jeff yes Jeff kod Goddard who was conceding around 25lbs and was 37 years old.Jeffries kod a lot of guys past their best ,and the better ones like Corbett made him look stupid,stabbing him silly with lefts ,or like Fitz punched his face into a bloody mask,Jeffries avoided the Black fighters like Johnson ,and Jeanette,no there isnt any pork in his resume,in fact there isnt much meat at all!

 

[FONT=&quot]

This content is protected

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

This content is protected

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

This content is protected

[/FONT]

 

[FONT=&quot]NM
[/FONT]

 

What is your source for stating that Munroes weight was 210 pounds?mine are as follows www.antek prize ring.com which states ,"Munroe outweighed by some 40 pounds" Box rec gives the weights of both men as follows
Munroe 186 Jefries 219 33 lbs weght difference ,Ive been at some pains to find the information because when Im wrong I will conced ,but when Im called misinformed ,with no evidence yet presented to back it up ,I get a trifle pissed, So save your sarcasm,and produce evidence that refutes mine.For the record I consider Jeffries a great fighter ,truly an Iron Man,but his record is built on beating men smaller and for the most art considerably older ,this is undeniable ,he never faced a man his own size and weight,You can decide not to respond ,fine that s your right ,but dont condescend to me,Ive given you facts ,ignore them if you want ,but you aint fooling me.

 

Box Rec is a great resource, but it is not always right. The best weights to use are primary sources given by a major news paper that actually sent reporters to cover the fight.

If you beleive a heavyweight fighter needs a win over a highly rated 220 pound man ( Jeffries size ) to be a great heavyweight, then the entire era of fighters...Sullivan, Corbett, Jackson, Jeffries, Jeanette, Johnson, McVey, Langford et al do not qualify. It seems to me like you were cherry picking things here. I feel you need to clarify. Are the other fighters held to the same standard here, or just Jeffries? Do tell. And if a world class 220 pound fighter is a cinch to win over 210-170 world class fighter, then you might be forced to admit that Jeffries was the best of the timeline.



Here is the San Fran news report on the Jeffreis-Munore fight. It is a long read, but do note Munroe is 210 pounds. Futher more if you view the prize ring photo you're talking about, Munroe looks close to Jeffires in size. THere is no way he is 186. 210 is corrrect. Here is the read.

Part I.


Great Crowd in San Francisco to See the

This content is protected

SAN FRANCISCO, Aug. 26 - Jim Jeffries

This content is protected

Pa-

This content is protected

San

This content is protected

's series of championship contests

This content is protected

New York with success

This content is protected

3 o'clock today the management an-

This content is protected

7 o'clock and the reserved pasteboards

This content is protected

 

Page 2 with Munore's weight in orange.

This content is protected

Butte man further said that his old

This content is protected

New York, advised

This content is protected

9 o'clock, remained

This content is protected

12 o'clock.

This content is protected

noon. Among his callers

This content is protected

LakeMerritt

This content is protected

Omaha that the

This content is protected

San

This content is protected

and Billy Sullivan of Portland.

This content is protected

9 o'clock the pavilion was rapidly

This content is protected

Rockies were seated.

This content is protected

9:19. a minute

This content is protected

Butte miner. Jeffries was pre

This content is protected

cali-

This content is protected

 

finish the fight I only seen one round lol

 

You produced one source I two why is yours correct? Ive allready stated Jeffries was a great fighter so why did you go off on a tangent? My contention was and is that Jeffries was a solid hitter but not a terrific one punch artist.My beef with you is that I stated Jeffries best wins were over older greatly out weighed opponents ,that isnt supposition ,its fact.

 

Is it necesarily important?

Some of the best heavyweights in every era are smaller heavyweights, and some fighters remain efective up to a far more advanced age than most.

Untill about 1950 Jeffries would have been considered by many to have beaten the best opposition of any heavyweight champion.

 

Let's see your source in a full write up review, not re-cycled one liner 90+ years after the fact on the internet. We should also be aware that fighters in those days gave lower weights than their actual weights according to news reads. Corbett was guilty of this for sure.

McVey, you did not answer my questions. Here they are again.

If you beleive a heavyweight fighter needs a win over a highly rated 220 pound man in his prime or near prime ( Jeffries size ) to qualify as a great heavyweight, then the entire era of fighters...Sullivan, Corbett, Jackson, Jeffries, Jeanette, Johnson, McVey, Langford et al do not qualify. I feel you need to clarify. Are the other fighters held to the same standard here, or just Jeffries? Do tell as I am interested in a fair apples to apples comparison.

And if a world class 220 pound fighter is a cinch to win over 210-170 world class fighter, then you might be forced to admit that Jeffries was the best of the timeline if you feel a 170-210 pound fighter can't beat a world class 220 pound fighter. Personally I beleive a 170-210 pound fighter can beat a world class 220 pound heavyweight in his prime or near prime....especially if he's a puncher, and has a stylistic advantage.

To close, Corbett, Fitz, and Sharkey were not past thier primes in 5 of 6 matches when they fought Jeffries. While all three fighters were not over 200 pounds, if you want to penalize Jeffries for not beating world class 220 pound heavies, then they same criticism should apply for all. If not, you are being biased for or against. Here's your chance to show the board your own rules apply to all fighters.

To close while neither Fitz, Corbett or Sharkey was 200+ pounds each man was a hall of fame fighter. Each man also had far more experience that Jeffries did, so that worked in their favor. Fitz liekly cheated in the 2nd match, and Sharkey drew an injured Jeffries! Fitz, Corbett and Sharkey represented the three classic styles of boxing. Jeffries beat all styles, puncher, boxer, and swarmer. He went 6-0 vs the three.

Also I beg to differ on your definition of old. Corbett was only 33 when he first meet Jeffries, and Sharkey was even younger for both fights. Only Fitzsimmons was older, but Fitz was a great older fighter. The proof is in the pudding as all of Fitz's matches vs top fighters besides Jeffries from 1896-1904 were most certainly big wins for Fitzsimmons. The only past his prime fighter of the three that Jeffries fought was Corbett in the second fight.

 

Inever said at any time that for a fighter to be raranked a great he must defeat a 220lbs fighter ,why you keep repeating this is a mystery,Ive allready said TWICE that Jeffries was a great fighter,my argument is the value of his victories over men past their best Corbett had had one fight in the 3 years prior to taking on Jeffries ,he was 33 and giving Jeffries 30 lbs, For the second Fight with Jeffries , Fitz was 40 to suggest he was still in his prime is a bit silly.

 

Janitor this started out as a post about the power of Jeffries ,I highlited the fact that his best wins were over greatly out weighed opponents and for the most part men beyond their prime,s The second part is natural by its very nature Boxing gives way to youth " the king is dead long live the king "etc mypoint was when talking about big Jeffs punch we must keep in mind the size of the men he was facing ,that sems reasonable to me,I stated twice to Mendoza that I consider Jeffries a great Fighter,but he appears to have another agenda,Ive answered him in the White Hope post and dont wish to hog this one .

 

McVey,

You won’t answer my questions because you were called out on being biased. You’re trying to discredit Jeffires wins because you think his opponents were too small. Fine, then please tell me who beat a world class 215-220 pound man in his prime from 1890-1914. I can’t see any. This does not mean the fighters in the time line could not hit. As for the ages, only Corbett was clealry past it in his second match with Jeffries.


If you think Jeffires was only a solid hitter and choose to ignore the testimonials I posted so be it. Let’s compare Jeffries KO % vs ANY HOF fighter in his era ( Langford, Choysnki, Jeanette, Johnson, Fitzsimmons, McVey ), and see how those eggs scramble. :deal


As Janitor said, weight does not dictate hitting power. I’ll take it a step further weight does dictate how good a fighter’s chin is either. Each fighter is his own case.

I’ll tell you what, I am more than sure I can list some chinny larger guys, and some big guys who can’t hit, and in the same time line can come up with some more durable smaller guys who can take a good punch and can hit. Are we on?


I suspect you'll take a pass or write something completely different without directly re-quoting what I said. So be it. My examples of under 185 pound fighters who could hit and take a punch on a high level are Sharkey and Langford.