Bonavena vs Ali who was winning going into the 15th?

Bonavena and his awkward style could make any opponent look bad even when he's winning.

 

As if it wouldn’t have been naturally assumed, this fight was absolute proof of the negative effects of the 3 1/2 year lay off and the ring rust Ali carried into the early stages of his second career.

All the same, it was interesting to see Ali slug it out though it was clearly less refined than his usual executions - and that had lot to do with fatigue and becoming sloppy as a consequence.

This fight was a god send in a way - another 3 rounder like the Quarry fight would’ve done Ali little favour. Just his second fight back in and there he was, having to fight near the full 15 rd Championship route.

The fight would’ve pushed Ali closer to optimal match fitness but, just imo, he still was clearly not there when he engaged Joe Frazier.

He tore through the first 4 rounds against Joe, really laying down a beating before tiring due to his own lack of real time rounds in the bag since his return from the banning. After round 4, the doors really opened up for Joe to get his own wicked licks in.

Over the course of the FOTC, you repeatedly hear the announcers express their awe and amazement over how much punishment Joe could take and always wondering how much more Joe could tolerate.

I swear, it was as if Joe was being scored not only for the punches he was landing but also for the punches he was taking - that’s the epitome of a win/win situation - Lol.

 

I believe Ali was winning but far from impressively ... unlike Quarry who was stopped fast on a cut, Oscar lasted and in his own clumsy , unorthodox manner used his strength and stamina to give Ali hell ... Ali was hit more in that fight than him his whole 1960's career combined, looked tired, showed the wear and tear to the once incomparable legs that were never to return to pre-exile form .. then in true Ali form he pulled absolute magic by catching Bonavena and stopping him, causing many to forget how unprepared he looked for a fight w Frazier .. the fact that this Ali fought an absolutey prime Joe Frazier there months later and perform as he did was his greatest fight ..

 

I don't buy the layoff excuse, he didn't actually go to prison, he couldn't have sanctioned fights during that time, but was he barred from staying in shape or sparring, he spent plenty of time with Cus, Cus was the reason he ended up with a decent right that he was cracking Bonavena with and ended up finishing Foreman with

 

Personally I believe it is entirely possible that early, not diagnosed Parkinson's Disease could have been responsible for some of Muhammad Ali's decline in his second career. Exactly when that started occurring is unclear. I suspect the effect may have been earlier than some think. Could it have been as early as the first few fights of his comeback? Maybe, maybe not. In any event Muhammad was not diagnosed, officially, until 1984. Cases of Parkinson's Disease having effects on people 15 years before diagnosis is rare but not impossible. 5-10 years is the normal time frame used for early symptoms before official diagnosis. (Symptoms had become painfully obvious by 1978, and, according to his daughter, some family members suspected there was something very wrong with Muhammad even before 1978.) It is obvious to anyone that the need for more money kept him fighting far longer than he should have.)

With all of that said, I think Muhammad was ahead in the fight with Oscar Bonavena, going into round 15. I have watched the fight and scored it. Although I do realize that scoring a fight from film is not the same as scoring live from ringside, I do not consider myself to be a terrible scorer of fights. I am at least decent, and that fight really did not seem that close to me. I scored it 9-4-1 for Muhammad Ali, going into round 15, meaning Oscar needed a knockout in round 15 in order to get the win. I saw it as a great effort by Oscar Bonavena against a Muhammad Ali, who was NOT the same Muhammad Ali I have seen on films from the 60's.

 

Well Oscar was a tough old bird, he gave Frazier those difficult bout s.
It was a close fight by all accounts but Ali pulled out the winner in the 15 th.

 

I don't remember how I had the fight scored but it was a rough fight for Ali and good thing he was in excellent condition. Bonavena would have given any version of Ali a tough fight, he was awkward and strong. At 5'10 Oscar was a tough style for Ali, but the fight boiled down to attrition and conditioning and Ali was stronger in the 15th.

Bonavena had good power but more of a clubbing puncher. I watched him train in the 28th street gym in NY a couple of times. Oscar was a funny guy, always joking around, nice friendly guy.

Oscar was a bull and prepared Ali for the sharper faster and seriously trained Joe Frazier who had only 26 fights vs Ali 31 for one of the greatest fights ever.

 

Well, Michael J Fox was diagnosed with Parkinson when he was just 29, so there is a possibility Ali was already in the early stage of his illnes by the time he fought Ringo. Not serious enough yet to be clearly visible, but enough to take Ali's edge away.

 

It was a close fight going into the 15th round, Howard Cosell was comparing Muhammad Ali's bout against Oscar Bonavena to Ali's title defense against Karl Mildenberger on Sept 10 1966 because Ali according to Cosell had a difficult time with Mildenberger's southpaw stance before dispatching Karl in that fight. In the Bonavena fight, Ali was very vulnerable, took too many shots to the body and head. that fight alone convinced me thjat Ali was not ready for champion Joe Frazier, Ali's stamina was in question, so were his reflexes and timing. Ali and Bonavena were scheduled to fight in Tokyo, Japan on May 27 1967 after the Zora Folley title defense on March 22 1967, but because of Ali's legal troubles with the Selective Service Board, the fight was scrubbed as Ali was stripped of his boxing license and title.