Bonecrusher Smith Against Jerry Quarry?

On first viewing 5 seconds after seeing it yes i thought it was legit. It was also obvious it was somewhat staged and overreacted by the guy holding the bag and designed to replicate the scene from decades earlier. On second viewing i picked up the inconsistency, clothing mark wise and no longer think it genuine tho i haven't bothered to comment.

If you accepted it was Foreman at 74yo and was still not impressed there's not much that can be done for you. Feel free to show video's of 74 yo's and above hitting the heavy bag with more mind blowing power, for 5-7 punches.

Witherspoon virtually shut him out a handful of fights prior but yeah, Bonecrusher suddenly decided to get angry and that was all she wrote. Witherspoon was a dozen pounds heavier than their previous fight and 15+ pounds heavier than he'd be for his next 2. He wasn't perspiring one little bit when he entered the ring. Why would be not be perspiring? You claim to be a trainer, did you miss this important facet? Do you warm "your" fighters up before a fight? Do you think warming up is crucial? Why on earth would a heavyweight champion not be warmed up? The 3 KD rule was also in. Witherspoon was up and bouncing when the fight was terminated. Beating? Witherspoon was unmarked and the fight went all of 2 minutes and 12 seconds.

Witherspoon just didn't turn up. The pre fight problems are well publicised. Smith was actually a sub after Tubbs claimed to have injured his shoulder. Witherspoon didn't want the sub as he'd been training for Smith, a much different fighter. He looked to pull out but King threatened to sue.

Weaver was faded at the time he fought Smith and was in trouble the fight before against the comparatively light hitting Carl Williams before he one punched him and Williams suspect chin gave way in just the second round.

Smith was dangerous but also a bit of a plodder.

 

You're actually saying you think Witherspoon threw this fight ? I don't.

To me it was clear as day. An unmotivated Witherspoon (King stealing payday) and overconfident ( easily thrashed Bonecrusher before) came into this fight with the last minute substitute and got caught cold with literally the first punch Smith threw (1:40) , never regained his equilibrium and lost based on the three knockdown rule against a highly motivated, fast starting Smith who went balls to the wall to avoid a repeat and to take advantage of the opportunity ... this may have been a fight where the three knockdown worked against a fighter because Witherspoon may have survived the round and came back to win , again but the rules ended that option .. Spoon could have used Big George as his matchmaker or Man Machine as his lobbyist!

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I think it's fine line TBH I don't believe Witherspoon took cash and deliberately threw the fight.

But on the other hand Witherspoon was getting shafted by Don King and wanted out.

All in all I don't really think Witherspoon turned up with any real motivation and didn't care at point.

 

Marvis maybe a tad underrated but he still wasn't known for his durability, Tillis virtually stopped Frazier in the 2nd round of their fight. Until referee gave Marvis a huge slice of fortune, giving him standing 8 count allowing him to recover when he was out. And we all know about Marvis getting blown away by Tyson, Holmes.

Bonecrusher for me is a perfect opponent for Quarry, hes big/slow perfect for Quarry's counter punching.

Another thing to factor into is Bonecrusher's suspect gas tank, unless Bonecrusher gets very lucky early in fight. Which I can't see happening as Quarry is too skilled and durable. Then I don't see Bonecrusher winning the fight in all honesty.

 

That whole generation of 80's heavyweights were shafted by King and it's the primary reason why they were inconsistent and underachievers with the exception of Holmes who was too tough and determined but to tank a fight in front of a live HBO audience at MSG is another point .. to me it was a combo of his eye was off the ball and he got caught ... the punches were real and he was trying as well ..

 

Watch JQ's defensive elusiveness, mobility and counterpunching prowess against Thad Spencer. Watch his quickness and body shots in the early going with a peak Frazier in June 1969. Watch how he handles the power punching Shavers and Lyle. (Ron was the subject of a 60 Minutes profile at the time he faced JQ, but Jerry ruined the conclusion of Lyle's news profile by knocking Ron from the undefeated ranks.)

I see no way for any version of Bonecrusher to be remotely competitive against the best version of JQ, who could wreck large power punching HWs. (In post fight interviews at the time, it's clear the younger Foreman wanted nothing to do with Jerry, not after what Quarry did to Mac Foster, Shavers and Lyle. Jerry challenges George instead of King Roman in late 1973, JQ wins the HW Championship via KO. He'd previously decked Foreman in sparring and had no feelings of being remotely intimidated by George, at a time Gil Clancy was Jerry's trainer.

 

So another words, it would be Jerry Quarry of his Dec 14 1973 KO of Earnie Shavers in round 1 vs the Bonecrusher Smith KO 1 of Terrible Tim Witherspoon of Dec 12 1986.

 

I think I’d rather do time then be a Christian minister aha

 

Do you have a source for this? The only time they're rumored to have sparred was in '68 before Foreman had even turned pro rendering it meaningless in a H2H bout. Even so, I'd never heard of Quarry knocking Foreman down.

 

I'm saying he didn't turn up, at the very least. He was way out of shape and didn't even warm up properly.

 

There's no doubt in my mind that Witherspoon simply did not show up for the Smith rematch. The troubles were well-documented, during the build-up and long-after that fight was over.

Smith was a 'have-a-go Henry' who had a bit a of dig on him but was essentially a caveman-level, swing for the fences type. He found himself in a fortuitous situation and wholly embraced the opportunity, so fair play to him. But even he knew that Witherspoon was greatly distracted, not focused on the job and so he elected to go for broke from the opening bell. Smith would refer to this in his post-fight interview: "

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Tired of having been continually ripped off, it had already been reported that Witherspoon would receive less than 10% of his purse from the Smith rematch (something to do with back-taxes on earnings he'd never received in the first place, maybe?). Witherspoon would later say that it was difficult for him to get motivated for fights when he knew he wasn't going to be paid for them.

Reports also emerged, alleging that Witherspoon had been threatened with suspension by the NYAC and with being stripped of the title, if he didn't fight Smith again. This, despite Witherspoon never having actually signed a contract to fight Smith.

Another inconsistency is with the 3KD Rule, in that it was declared as NOT being in effect by the HBO announcers but somehow came into effect when Witherspoon was knocked down officially for the third time in the first round. In general, none of the major governing bodies apply the 3KD Rule in title fights. When asked about the 3KD Rule, Witherspoon did not appear to be all that bothered by it having been in place.

Jose Torres said that the rule had been discussed and made clear as being in effect at "the rules meeting" and that Slim Robinson had signed something to acknowledge the same. This claim was rejected by Witherspoon's lawyer.

Immediately after the fight, the NYAC went public with a positive drug test result for Witherspoon, only to walk it back days later (with less publicity), citing clerical error as the cause of the misinformation. The damage had already been done.

The State Governor ordered the Inspector General to investigate some of the seeming irregularities surrounding the bout.

Witherspoon would break ties with and sue King. IMO, he was relieved by the result which, from his perspective, was a watershed moment, freeing him from the Kings.

 

That's a brilliant post and you've encompassed everything. To say it's on the nose or suss is grossly understating it.

 

Witherspoon was out of shape for most of his post Holmes career include big wins like his defense vs Bruno before this fight when he weighed more. That said you agree he didn’t tank the fight.

 

DK, JS and the alphabets jerked over every top heavyweight of that era including Ali so despite the fact you enjoy playing justified excuse maker they all had to deal with it. Tim blew the fight. Period. He had no exclusive as victim of the politics. He simply wasn’t as strong mentally as a Holmes who dealt w worse much better. The rest is regurgitated Jack Newfield material that’s over thirty years old.

https://www.amazon.com/Life-Crimes-...made+in+america+don+king,stripbooks,80&sr=1-1

 

Where did i say he didn't tank the fight? Again, at the very least he didn't turn up. Did he tank? I'm not sure.