Both Walcott and Charles was "spent" when they met Marciano.

Charles was clearly past his best.

Jersey was at his absolute peak imo, as was Moore.

 

agreed, but in a prime v prime matchup that is that bit that matters.

true enough.

i don't really agree but i can see where you're coming from there, but in the case of a specific fight overall ability is less important than the specific abilities that will help win the fight. if we forget about the word prime and just say walcott brought something slightly different to the ring in '47 than in '53 i would chose the walcott of a few years earlier to do a bit better v rocky;
walcott doesn't seem to have had the power to stop rocky, so the extra experience to land or avoid extra punches will certainly not hurt, but is unlikely to be the factor that wins/loses the fight. on the other hand not getting swamped by marciano's pace is important, so if joe had a bit more in the tank it could be important. that's how i see it anyway, but i don't dismiss opinions on fantasy fights so i aint saying it's a fact.

 

i see what you are saying. i think
you are saying Walcott was asgood as he got but if we take some years off him it helps him in the physical fight Rocky dragged him into?

trouble issue if we take those years off him Walcott is the more cautious fighter he said was then. we cant mix and match something and create something that did not exist.

 

Then why retire?

 

You had to go and ask that didn't you? TROUBLE MAKER

 

yeah.

fair point, we can't do that. would walcott be able to fight in that cautious style vs marciano or would rocky force him to do the same anyway?

i initially said walcott was further gone than charles, i still know why i said that but this discussion has made me see that since we never saw walcott get shot and look terrible vs lesser guys in the way charles and most others did there's no way of knowing what he had left, except statistics and they're only indicators.

 

Right. We saw Charles look terrible, less good against John Holman and Bob Albright. By then he was life and death with fighters he used to ice. But this was after Rocky.

There is plenty of footage out there of Charles fighting between Walcott and Rocky and he looks great. Film against Layne, Brion, Satterfeild, Reynolds, Harrison, Wallace and Harold Johnson he looks as hard to beat as he did in his championship years. And these fighters are as good if not better than the guys he defended against like Valentino, Oma, Lesnevich, Barone and Maxim.

 

A performance worthy of his prime.

 

Who's causing trouble?

 

Guessing after he gave his all first time round, and took the paycheck second time round, he had no desire left.

 

So after Tyson gets mullered by Douglas they feed him Tillman so that he can give a performance worthy of his prime?

Ooooookaaaaay.

 

Would you call Duran vs Barkley a "prime result"?

 

No. Nor was Duran shot or spent. neither Walcott nor Charles were as far gone as Duran was beating Barkley.

A comeback fighter is a different kettle of fish anyway. They build up to a new prime available within what is left over from a previous career. A relevent fighter, still current and operating is incomparable.

Duran being able to beat Barkley was a good win in that he had enough left to beat him. Duran was beyond prime but still merely "world class". Duran beating Barkley was like Joe Louis beating Lee Savold. Half the fighter he had been but still world class.

Charles was where Ali was in 1974.

 

Louis was spent when Rocky beat him, the other two were past prime but had something left.

 

It's a lot more than "Something" that Walcott and Charles had left!!!

Film of previous fights shows highlight reel worthy material for both fighters. Stunning knockouts at world level. It can't be disputed.

Yes, Louis was half the man, but even this version had "something" left because he was beating rated guys. Louis was where Duran was beating Barkley.

Charles and Walcott, with a title on the line, were both as hard to beat as they had been at any time in their careers.