Bowe vs. Douglass

Agreed,

and one knockdown doesnt amount to the kind of sustained and relentless beating that Douglas would be taking from Bowe.. He got off the canvas once in a fight that he was dominatiing....Big deal.

 

you mean like an aged Berbick who Carl Williams beat a year earlier and who Tyson sparked in two rounds, while barely being 20 years old? How about Oliver McCall who had 15 fights and was losing to men like mike Hunter? Or maybe it was the 16-9 Donnie Long or Jerry Halstead?

In 1989? Don't think so.

Little more to it than that... Bowe was undefeated 32-0 when he fought Holyfield and a former olympian at that.. Pierre Coetzer was a rated contender, and while Bowe's resume was thin of big names, he was sure as hell making short work of the people that were put in front of him... Douglas was a man who lost to Ferguson and Tucker when in his prime, and never really beat a peak opponent..

Witherspoon was recovering from his loss to Smith, and I don't consider looking better against ONE opponent to be any sort of a comparison..

A terrible team who for the sake of their reputation were lucky that Tyson dispatched those fighters as soon as he did.. Bruno was coming of a 16 month hiatus and made Tyson look like ****.. Williams was prone to early round left hooks... This was the same team of trainers who pressed a disolved bag of ice over Tyson's swollen face in the Douglas fight and gave him no useful advice.

being in the same shape for those fights didn't say much for reasons that I have already touched upon, and I ( and many others ) would wager that his mental focus for the Douglas fight was even worse.

he sure as hell looked better for his bouts running from 1986-1988, than he did post rooney.

 

I was around at this time!!!

douglas was not suposed to beat mike williams in 1988. Mike was 16-1 and the loss was a disputed split against an in shape witherspoon who Tyson would not fight. Douglas was one of those fighters King had on his books who wouldnt go away. Buster was given Berbick, who nobody wanted. A young mccall was more dangerous than big foot martin and a host of fighters chalengers beat to get title shots in the 1980s.

 

Mike williams, tex cobb, Mike tyson, greg page?? I would add oliver mccall, he was never an easy opponent for anyone. Berbick was also always tough for anyone not called Tyson... Its like saying joe frazier was nothing when Ali beat him the third time just because george foreman beat him in two rounds.

 

Indeed. However, Berbick, smith and Tucker were good wins but only the berbick fight was sensational. When they met Tyson for the title Tubbs, Biggs, Thomas, Holmes, spinks and bruno were not beating fighters as good as the guys Douglas was beating.

 

A 16-1 novice who went nowhere and asside from giving spoon some trouble in a losing effort, did nothing of note.

Hadn't beaten a worthy opponent in years and was about to embark on a 4 fight losing streak.

Huge win, but not against a motivated opponent.

Had lost 3 of his last 4 fights, including David Bey.

If all you're doing is labeling him as a " decent opponent" then fine.. If you're trying to build him into a fighter of notoriety, then no dice. McCall was a 14-2 nobody who was more or less a sparring partner for good fighters.. He would not beat Lennox Lewis for another 4 years. Its primarily what McCall did in HINDSITE that has somehow raised the stock value of Douglas's win over him.

Berbick was finished, Choklab. He was pushing 35, was soundly beaten by Carl Williams 8 months earlier, and was 3 years removed from beating anyone meaningful.

In the first place, comparing Joe Frazier to Trevor Berbick is ludicrous on several different levels. Second, he was 31 and not pushing 35, lastly unlike Berbick when he fought Douglas, Frazier was still in good standing in the division, and coming off a few meaningful fights.

 

They also didn't have the history of losing to the caliber of fighters that Douglas frequently lost to, and furthermore, I'd say that some of their more recent wins were at least comparable to douglas's if nothing else.

 

Great analysis! Many people forget that Buster Douglas did more than just beat Mike Tyson. He had a decent run pre-Tyson whereby he beat some quality guys. Take away Bowe's wins over Holyfield, and you don't really have a star-studded resume. To me, the accomplishments of both guys are pretty similar. And aside from professional accomplishments, I don't see much difference between the two skill-wise. They were both big, strong guys with good jabs, good power, and varied arsenals.

 

Riddick Bowe ducked Razor Ruddock in favor of fighting Pierre Coetzer. Not that it matters now, but in 1992, Ruddock was viewed as a dangerous opponent, unlike Coetzer who, despite his high ranking, was a limited guy of dubious achievement!

 

spinks was coming off a retired cooney. Bruno was coming off bugner. Tubbs and thomas had not beaten rated fighters since before Tyson turned pro. Holmes was coming off a lay off. I am not saying these are worthless wins, at the time these were the fights I wanted to see but with hindsight Buster had better form and seasoning than Holmes, bruno, Tubbs and thomas going into title fights.

Douglas was actualy on a bit of a streak when you compare it to those guys. Bowe was not matched so hard as Douglas before his title fight.

 

atsch Not this bull**** again. So according to you a fighter must have a winning streak over mid ranked "contenders" to be a formidable challenger?


...

 

You never addressed my comment about those guys not having as many defeats to mediocrities as Douglas had.. And frankly I don't see Riddick Bowe sustaining early career losses to Ferguson, Mike white or David Bey, so no, I don't believe he was matched harder early on.. Hell it wasn't until Douglas's 33rd fight that he beat an aged Berbick, let alone Holyfield who Bowe fought with less fights.

 

Bowe is the far better fighter..........he would take Douglas into deep waters, if Tyson would have have not ****ed around and actually gave a **** at that time we would not have that conversation.

Douglas had talent and skills but very little heart and he was only able to conquer his inner demons for one night against a guy who rather be banging chicks in whorehouses instead of fighting.

The proof is in the pudding, he quit against Tucker and quit against Holyfield and ultimately he quit against Tyson because he avoided a rematch by all means and trust me, a rematch would have made mega bucks .

BTW, even a total washed up Bowe could not be put down by a prime Golata , only low blows kept Bowe off the mental midget, make no mistake , Bowe is about as tough as they come.

 

Would have been a great fight.

Buster is almost as big as Bowe really and has the better footwork. I like Bowe to take it because he's the meaner guy.

 

mike white was a bad loss, aparently douglas was winning that fight until he got clipped. Same thing happend to Frank Bruno and Tommy Morrison (at an albeit higher level) and both also went on to world titles.

Ferguson was 11-0 and a much better fighter than he was when jesse was losing more than he was winning when fought bowe. buster lost a SD to an unbeaten fighter, so what?

Douglas fought Bey in his home town on davids debut, Bey went on a KO streak right up until he won the USBA title from Page - David was some prospect when you weigh it up.

The point is douglas turned a corner after the Tucker loss and was consistant at a good level over a number of fights.

Pre title, Riddick was not thrown in with any unbeaten fighters, Holyfeild was the first one he met. Both beat great fighters to become champion but both arived there by very different routes.