Bowe vs. Douglass

it's true that Buster Douglas had a run of quite good performances since 1986, and esp. after his loss to Tony Tucker in '87 and leading up to the Tyson fight.

at the time i considered him, along with Holyfield, razor Ruddock and maybe carl williams, as one of the few contenders who seemed to be on the upgrade rather than on the decline

most of the guys tyson fought were on the downhill of their careers. douglas had been around for a while but he'd certainly looked an improved fighter in the 2 or 3 years leading up to his challenge

 

Talking of Tim Witherspoon v Mike Williams, has anyone got that fight ?

 

- Mike White was a bum. Never heard anyone call him a badass until now

- Douglas was 5-0 when he was blasted out in two rounds by a debuting bey

- Douglas was a contender with 23 pro fights when he lost to an 11 fight Ferguson

- He was winning against Tony Tucker, then quit against him.

- Bowe may not have been matched against "undefeated" fighters, but he was beating better opponents.

 

I would love to see it. witherspoon was in shape and looking to gate crash the title again going by the weight he came in at.

 

white was not a bad ass. I saw him years later take quite a brave beating from micheal moorer. He was a peg or two down from c-list but was big enough to be a handfull when he was younger. I said it was a bad loss, Douglas should of won, I make no excuse he was not yet the fighter he was after Tucker.
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I dont think Bowe was beating beter figters pre holyfeild than douglas had pre tyson.

Do you think seldon and a worn old Tubbs were better than Cobb, page, berbick, mccall and williams? remember page and cobb had only lost to world champions by the time douglas was thrown in with them.

 

Fair enough, but Bowe was fighting Journeyman and trialhorses on White's level, at or around the same phase that Douglas was when he lost to white, and didn't lose to them.

I don't think they were necessarily "better" persay, but they were certainly comparable, with the only difference, that Bowe wasn't losing to anyone, and beating his foes much more emphatically.

Tubbs was in better shape for Bowe than he had been in years, coming off a nice string of wins including the rated Orlin Norris and fought Bowe while he was a work in progress.. At this stage, Tubbs was arguably comparable or better than Berbick, Cobb, Wiliams or McCall were at the point in TIME when Douglas fought them. Seldon turned out to be a bust, but he was 18-1, and Bowe beat him in one round, in his 25th bout.. Would you say that beating Tubbs in his 23rd fight and Seldon in his 25th, was better than Douglas losing to Ferguson in his 25th? You also threw out Pierre Coetzer who had never before been stopped in 41 fights and was riding a 17 fight winning streak. If you're going to use past prime former champions, green prospects or hopefuls like Williams who never amounted to anything, then you may want to note that Bowe also beat Biggs, Thomas, Cooper and a few others... Not that I think much of these wins, but that seems to be what you're doing.

Incidentally, Bert Cooper was on the brink of a pretty good winning streak and would soon trouble Holyfield after the Bowe fight... Prior to Bowe he had beaten Norris and fought life and death with Mercer.. Bowe beat him inside of 3. He was also in his 20th fight when he did this, which was exactly where Douglas was when he lost to white.

 

Douglas was not getting the same breaks. He didnt have a "name" and was given fights that groomed prospects just dont get given. Altogether Douglas fought 6 unbeaten fighters before his first title fight, 5 "at the time" rated contenders and 3 world champions.

I dont think he was getting proper notice for early fights, looking at his record his weight was all over the place.

As early as 1982 Douglas beat unbeaten stefan tangstad but was docked points by the judges so it ended a draw after 8 rounds.

in 1985 dion simpson was 17-0 and had KOd dave jaco who was 18-2 and just KOd razor ruddock.

But they were all lined up to be knocked over. Riddick was away in camp with the great Eddie futch. 23 of bowes first 30 victims had lost their last fight including the name fighters thomas, cooper and seldon who were not facing world beaters at that time either. I can think of only Tubbs as a fighter who was actually trying to win among the overmatched victims Bowe was fed. Coetzer was game but over matched. By comparison Douglas was not really getting the same investment. Like a lot of non Olympian prospects james was facing disillusionment from the beginning.

I think at 11-0 Ferguson had the drive of an unbeaten fighter with more passion than Tubbs could muster at that point. Douglas only lost that by a SD so one judge had him winning anyway. KO magazine regarded the tubbs fight a loss for Bowe... at the end of the day had Douglas been backed like bowe did Buster could have had the same career as bowe. No better, just the same. Douglas still would have become disillusioned and unmotivated but it would have happened at the time it did with bowe. They were both prety simular.

Cooper was 22lb lighter and had lost a very hard fight last time out against Mercer. Taking on a 22lb lighter 6 inch shorter fighter who is recovering from a brutal losing fight 8 weeks earlier is not that hard a task for a top heavyweight. Cooper was hot and cold but came in freezing on that night. Cooper had also been knocked out by Foreman who was seen as a joke at that time. The opinion then was Bert had found his level at for the USBA title.

 

There is no doubt Douglas had good boxing skills but he didnt have it in the guts department like Bowe did. He lapsed in several fights. This was a consistent factor in Douglas career and a lot of times it was because of the resistance fighters created against him.

Bowe even in his poorest condition was able to hang in there with the toughest of opponents and regardless if he was far behind on the cards. I dont think he would ever resort to just being a stationary punching bag like Tyson was in the Douglas fight.

So with that I cant see Douglas ever beating Riddick Bowe. Bowe would be too tough for him to keep it together over the course of a long fight.

 

Yes Imagine an army of Bowes in the Marines - They's be an unbeatable fighting force.................Well, they would be for about 11 days till they all quit

 

What a singularly bizarre case is the estimation of Douglas on these forums. They'll tear apart actual great fighters and downplay their accomplishments and H2H ability. Frazier, Patterson, etc. But, this guy? Ignore anything but the best performance, one night, over a great fighter that was not in anywhere near his own best, by a long, long, long shot and disregard every shred of the massive amount of evidence of him being a generally lackluster figure...It's ****ing bizarre. It's Jimmy Youngian, really. Bowe beats the **** out of him and stops him. I'd bet my house on it. ...Well, my car, anyway. It's not a brilliant vehicle. Buster would have no clue how to deal with him. He's got a great story, in getting the title, but let's not confuse great stories with great fighters.

 

We may not agree on Holmes but we agree on this. Douglas never fought the real Tyson. If he had, nobody would be thinking about him, let alone making threads like this.

 

Is that because Tyson lost? Tyson did not have an out of body experience he was as much the mike tyson who demolished carl williams and frank bruno. joe louis lost to max schmeling yet he was still a great fighter and so was tyson.

 

Bowe had more activity than tyson. Plus Douglas wouldn't enjoy the physical advantages he had against iron mike.

A some point douglas takes his eye off the ball and bowe drops him, the difference is bowe wouldn't let off at that point, he'd be willing to bang with douglas and should finish him off.

 

short, sweet and probably right