Bowe vs Foreman in 1996

Bowe looked like complete trash in those fights. In comparison, tyson and lewis completely demolished him and made it look like easy work.

Holyfield was the highlight of bowes career. Period. He had a close bout with an old tubbs and stopped the limited short herbie hide. You keep talking about foreman avoiding big skilled heavyweights but he fought way more of them than bowe did, who feasted on cruiserweights and has beens.

Foreman at 50 fought the dangerous power punching 6'4 briggs in his prime. He put on a clinic, landed way more punches and was robbed. Savarese, schullz, stewart and all these guys you crticize him for were also in the 6'4-6'5 range and 220-230+ lbs. In fact foreman feasted on bigger guys and loved not having to chase people around the ring. He would either splatter them or win a clear decison most of the time, but he never got outmuscled or shoved around, EVER.

In contrast, if you look at bowes resume where are all the big heavies? Golota was a step up for him in this regard and look what happened. He wanted no parts of Lewis and dumped his belt. Other than his amateur rival he somehow managed to never fight Mercer, briggs, ruddock, or ANY of the big guys to my knowledge. Why is that?

 

Foreman by KO

 

Two questions -

1. What was on bald comeback Foremans resume that could point to him beating Moorer and winning the World Heavyweight Championship?

2. What was on hairy Foremans resume to point to him decimating ATG Joe Frazier?

Don't be confined to the box amigo.

 

Foreman is up 9 votes to 7.

 

Both were huge upsets, I agree. Nobody thought hairy George stood a cat in hells chance against Frazier and nobody equally thought bald George stood a chance against Moorer. You are correct on that score, I will agree.

With hindsight we now realise how both those results were possible. Frazier went on to prove he had no elite wins left in him beyond the first Ali fight. Frazier, for his own good, should have retired undefeated. Fraziers record both on film and paper bares this out. so there is a clear logical explanation of how that almighty upset happened.

Moorer, we already realised going into his fight with George was an unlikely, weak chinned, small champion made to order for a good version of George - even going into that fight we knew this much- but nobody thought George had been active enough or could be young enough to actually do it. A lot had to do with the fact that it was ludicrous that george was given the opportunity, even so, He had a punchers chance. And that small element produced the unlikely win.

Now because Both carnations of George produced one surprising result does this prove that Bowe in 1996 could have succumbed to the mother of all upsets against the guy Bald George actively did not want to fight because he believed he would get knocked out if he did??

Even if we say Bowe was where Frazier was going into his fight with Foreman, the best heavyweight in the world but also more washed up than we realised, how is he going to lose in 1996 to the oldest old man in boxing who only fought once since 1994? What stylistically can we draw from 47 year old bald George to promote a sensible chance against Bowe? After all, In 1996 Foreman laboured to beat a kick boxer Crawford Grimsby on points. Grimsby out jabbed Foreman and he'd only been boxing two years. In his next fight Grimsby (who took everything bald 47 year old George could muster without flinching) was blown out in one round in his very next fight by journeyman Jimmy Thunder. Thunder you recall had already been knocked out by Mike the Bounty Hunter, cruiserweigt Johnny Nelson and never made the grade. That's where George was in 1996.

 

Give you an inch and you'll take a mile. Angelo Dundee openly picked Foreman vs Frazier, Louis said Frazier was made to order for him and Cosell said the world will be shocked. That's off the top of my head. Let's not pretend Foreman had NO backers.

I find the rest of your post biased as usual against poor old (and young) George.

 

You are splitting hairs. Saying nobody thought Frazier would lose does not mean a few people picked an upset to happen. There's always a few people picking an upset. A few picked Ali over Liston too. The fact is Foreman was a huge underdog and rightly so because the guys he fought in 1972 were terrible. Nobody could guess he was good enough to face Frazier beating those guys. Terry Sorrel, Murphy Gordwin, Clarance Boone. These men had not won fights since the 1950s.

I don't think it is biased to say Foreman going the 12 round distance with a novice pro in 1996 who lasted only 13 seconds with jimmy Thunder in his next fight would be considered a mismatch for Bowe right after he knocked out Holyfield.

 

Foreman shortened to 2-1 by fight time. You might consider that a "huge underdog" but i sure as heck don't.

This is cherry picking and agenda driven.

The thread has nothing to do with Foremans chances vs Bowe before he fought Golota. We know what happened and the request is to make a choice obviously allowing hindsight. We all saw how Bowe was vs Golota. We also saw what happened to Golota vs Lewis.

Bowe was driving Futch insane for a reason. Looking at what Bowe weighed vs Golota first fight, how he went in both fights and how Lewis dealt with Golota and it is fair to say Bowe was shyte at this time. Your attempt to angle toward Bowe being "found out" by the Golota bouts is absurd tbh.

 

I don't think it is agenda driven to highlight (considering the thread is called "Bowe vs Foreman in 1996") where both men were with there careers during 1996.

In 1996, 47 year old Foreman had fought just once since 1994. With a twenty pound weight advantage George fought a novis pro called Crawford Grimsby in November that went the full distance. In his next fight Grimsby was knocked out in 13 seconds. This proved Grimsby never made the grade before fighting Foreman and he never made the grade after fighting Foreman. That's all anyone needs to know about where Foreman was with his career in 1996 because that's all that happened to him.

 

Frazier was made a 3½ to 1 favorite by Las Vegas odds makers.

 

If Bowe shows up like he did in some of his fights (Golota, Hide) he'd be in for a very tough fight with Foreman and may even lose a decision or win controversially. If Bowe shows up ready in top forum I think he clearly beats Big George but by no means would it be easy.

 

Local betting where both fighters camps etc were under scrutiny dropped to 2-1 by fight time due to Foreman's impressiveness.

 

Always the negative slant when Foreman and Liston are concerned. On the flipside Grimsby had never been beaten and ran from Foreman all night. He also was soundly beaten on points. Foreman, rusty early, worked harder later in the bout and shook off some rust. Foreman is also not beyond carrying someone to get some rounds (time in the ring) in the bank when needed.

Foreman was also very impressive against Briggs 12 months later so we know the old warrior still had it.

 

Oh right, Foreman carried Grimsby...is that because the guy only lasted 13 seconds with Thunder?

I've just rewatched both Golata fights on YouTube. Bowe may have been too heavy in the first 1996 one but Jim Lampley still calls him "the best active heavyweight in the world right now" during the live broadcast.

George Foreman is part of the same broadcasting team with Jim and at no point does he dispute this statement during the fight. Nobody is expecting Golota to win, nor is there any talk of Bowes decline. Only surprise at how good Golota is doing.

It still is a brutal fight to watch but overall the emphasis is not on Bowe getting old overnight but more on Golota being the better fighter. By the end they are beginning to say perhaps Bowe took him too lightly and concern about how damaging to Bowes long term career the fight had been.

Even then Foreman (still an active fighter with the linear title) makes no mention of being active or talk of either Golota or Bowe as a potential opponent. Just as I remembered, Foreman was still seen as a semi retired "novalty sideline" not included in serious debate among elite boxers at genuine championship level. He has been stripped of his official belt. He is commenting on this fight yet neither Merchant or Lampley must consider their co partner a serious rival to either Golota or bowe. If you didn't know different you wouldn't know George was even an active fighter to listen to them.

By the second fight Bowe clearly looks a damaged fighter. Perhaps he lost too much weight too quickly but Riddick is fighting like a shot fighter. His timing is worse than the first fight and so too is his punch resistance. But this is 1997 and the effects of the 1996 fight together with weight draining has had an impact. Yet still Bowe gets up off the floor to score his own knockdown.

It is the same commentary team and still there is no mention of Foreman being active or a possible opponent for either fighter. Even then it must be considered too embarrassing a question to ask because Bowe and Golota are obviously considered a level above Foreman. Again to listen to them it appears as if Foreman is no longer active even though he just fought Grimsby.

You would think George might call out the winner or loser or mention how he would do but on this subject Foreman is Sensibly mute.

 

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