Boxers from lower divisions who could handle hesvyweighs?

Mickey Walker
Tommy Loughran
Harold Johnson
Jack Delaney
Danny Nardico
Jack O Brien
Harry Greb
Stan Ketchel
All had success to varying degrees against heavies.
The best?
Bob Fitzsimmons!

 

You just don’t get it.

 

They were able to do what they did in their era but I don't see them having the same success against modern heavyweights. Think about the 90's or 2000's. Could any of them beat Lennox Lewis or the Klitschko's? Ezzard Charles would have the best chance but that's a tall order no pun intended.

 

No I think you don't

It's a lot easier to understand when you've actually trained and competed in combat sports

 

As good as Sugar Ray Robinson was, he never tried to venture into heavyweight. Even though during his era, heavyweight started at 176 pounds and most top heavies were 185-200 pounds. Ray Robinson was much more skilled than Marciano, but because of the size difference, he had little hope of beating Marciano or Jersey Joe Walcott.

 

Ezzard wouldn't be the one with the best chance, he had the better power and skill but the faster LHWs I mentioned would have the benefit of outrunning the big guys until they were sucking air and became less and less effective. Remember, it took Louis 13 rounds to get Conn out of there. Fat chance Andy Ruiz, Hrgovich or Dubois can have that sort of timing and power after 12 rounds of chasing Billy around and getting jabbed in the face.
The name of the game for the smaller men is outlasting their bigger counterparts.

 

Conn would get destroyed by all three of those modern heavyweights as would Bivol who is a current light heavyweight champion that is far superior to Conn. The thing you need to realize about Conn vs Louis is Conn was 174 and Louis was 199. That is not that significant of a weight advantage compared to 174 vs 250.

No doubt Conn is a very important fighter historically and he was great in his era. But watch video of Conn and Bivol back to back. Bivol is far superior. With that said, the size is a major problem.

 

Bivol hasn't stepped up into heavier divisions, Conn did, and he nearly bested one of the hardest punching human beings to step into the ring. We have footage of Conn coping headshots and body punches by Louis, we have nothing of the sort from Bivol.
We have Conn's record against the heavyweights of the era, we know he could step up and be competitive.
For the big Heavyweights to beat Conn they'd have to score a knockout in the first 5 otherwise his chances would get better and better. You have confidence in Ruiz and Dubois doing it faster than Louis did in two efforts, I don't. I simply don't hold these guys to the same esteem.
Conn proved his lighter body could take a punch, not every 175 lbs can do that, which is why men like Conn, Loughran and Tunney were outliers, not the norm.
Bivol hasn't shown that he can do that, so I wouldn't compare him to Conn.
Besides, we haven't seen Bivol step up and fight heavyweights, if Loughran, Conn and the rest were around today they probably wouldn't either and we would always assume the first heavyweight they ran into would fold them up like an empty purse.

 

But even in his own time, Burley still didn't compete with top heavyweights, even though the HW division in his time started at 176 pounds and most top heavies were 185-200 pounds. If he felt he could defeat the best heavyweights in the world during his time, he could have moved up to heavyweight and proved it. Keep in mind, these weren't the modern day 6'4 230ish pound heavyweights. These were the 6'0 180ish pound heavyweights. When Floyd Patterson first became heavyweight champion, he was all of 182 pounds. Marciano was 184 pounds. Walcott was 196 pounds. I don't remember reading about welterweights and middleweight fighters tripping and falling over themselves to fight them.

 

I think you may have missed the last 15 words of my post re Burley's chances against the best HWs of his day, as you begin your post "but" and then go on to make virtually the same point contained within those 15 words.

I don't think there were any fighters active at WW or MW that could have stepped up and beaten prime versions of Marciano or Patterson, either.

 

Do you not understand that heavyweight back in the 40's was a lot different than heavyweight today? Louis was under 200 pounds when he fought 174 pound Conn. The heavyweights of today are 250 pounds in some cases.

No doubt that Louis and Conn were killers in THEIR era. That doesn't mean that it translates to today. Ty Cobb was a hell of a hitter against 80 mph fastball but put him in with guys throwing 100 mph today and his is just a guy.

 

I think if Qawi opted to have a campaign there, he could’ve beaten a few decent guys, would give him a decent chance against Weaver, Snipes and probably a few others of his era.

 

There were 250 lbs guys back then too, and guys who hit harder than Louis, but Louis was simply better at hurting and knocking people out than those guys. If Conn can stand to Louis' power, It's fair to say he can take punches from the bigger guys too. If Louis had trouble cornering him, how are the 230+ lbs guys going to manage? Louis was faster than all of the guys competing today in his division.

You have no basis whatsoever to say they wouldn't be.

I'm not sure how Conn's ability in baseball would have any bearing in hypothetical boxing match ups.

 

You'll like this one. I remember reading it somewhere, maybe in a book by Peter Wilson. Whether it's true or not, I have no idea, but this is as it was written.

Peter Keenan ,a Scottish bantamweight, was at a party in Glasgow, attended by then heavyweight champion, Sonny Liston. Keenan was smoking a cigar which Sonny took offence to and made that known to Keenan.

Keenan, all 120lbs of him, squared up to Liston, by all accounts, and pointed out three things. One, that he may not be a heavyweight but he had never lost a fight outside the ring which, coming from a Glaswegian, carries some ominous threat. Two, that there was a window close by which would have been sufficiently high and wide to accommodate an exiting Liston. And thirdly, Peter shrewdly pointed out that they were on the second floor.

It seems it was enough to convert Sonny to the pleasure of a big Cuban as a photo was taken not long later of a beaming Liston with an equally happy Peter Keenan, sat on his lap enjoying a big cigar. I love that story. For all his mean bluster, Sonny only ever wanted to give and receive affection and respect.

 

Modern wise very difficult to make a case, Usyk from cruiser has been brilliant.

Looking back in time think Georges Carpentier deserves a shout, welter to ending up HW.