Boxers have regressed a lot

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by bballchump11, Aug 28, 2012.


  1. purephase

    purephase Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Not crazy at all about his editorial opinions, which often are a clear example of the worst kind of simplistic nostalgia, but I think he's correct about the numbers.
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yes.
     
  3. rayrobinson

    rayrobinson Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Daivd Haye got put on his ass by Carl Thompson. This renders your point mute.

    Joe Frazier not skilled . Please. Watch fights more than a decade old and you will see the difference.
     
  4. Lester1583

    Lester1583 Can you hear this? Full Member

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    :lol:
     
  5. dealt_with

    dealt_with Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Can you quote the part that says this for me, I had a look through it but all I could see was a senile idiot talking about how boxers used to be more active.
     
  6. purephase

    purephase Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    From the response to the third question:
     
  7. dealt_with

    dealt_with Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Unless I see some statistics I'm not going to believe that and there's no reason why I should. Again you're talking about popularity and how often fighters fought, that's irrelevant. That's another common sense thing, if fighters are fighting all the time then the work they do is going to be lower quality. The more an athlete performs the more mentally and physically fatigued they will be, the less room they'll have to recover and actually improve their game. Periodisation came into existence for a reason.
     
  8. dealt_with

    dealt_with Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    An old guy with an obvious emotional bias just saying something isn't proof of anything. He talks a lot of nonsense in that interview so until there are some statistics presented...
     
  9. Jorrvaskr

    Jorrvaskr Active Member Full Member

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    The opinion seems to be the same amongst many boxing veterans and experts, boxing has been devolving rather than evolving. Hopefully with this return of popularity we'll see better technique and skill but it seems unlikely as no combat sport will ever reach the heights like boxing did in its heyday.
     
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I've shown you some statistics and you've chosen not to believe them. That's your choice. That's OK. I've seen them, you haven't and you've chosen not to believe them

    Popularity of a sport is the most exclusive factor in determing participation in the sport. That's common sense. Just look at the list of active fighters in 1945:

    Joe Louis
    Ezzard Charles
    Charley Burley
    Holman Williams
    Lloyd Marshall
    Sugar Ray Robinson
    Henry Armstrong
    Fritzie Zivic
    Willie Pep
    Manuel Ortiz

    These are just the guys approaching, at or above the type of level that Floyd and Pac have reached. Guys like Jack, Williams, Chase, Montgomery and Wright don't even make that list and there are dozens of them. If this higher level of skill and performacne aren't defined by talent pool, what are they defined by?


    Why!? You think doing something more makes you worse at it?! Common sense dictates that experience makes a person better, not worse.

    Of course there will be times when a fighter's performance is sub-par because of fatigue but it is also the case that a fighter learns something from almost every contest they fight in once they are fighting at a certain level.

    Can you name any other activity where doing the thing in question 70 or 80% less makes a practitioner worse at it?
     
  11. dealt_with

    dealt_with Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    You haven't seen statistics if your source is a newspaper or a boxing book. That's not reputable, anyone can make anything up.

    The talent pool is higher now imo because the Soviet countries and Cubans are entering the pro ranks, that was rare back in the day. I don't think it's any coincidence that the rise of those countries success coincides with the decline in American boxing. Boxing is alive and well around the world, it's only in the west that it's been lagging behind.

    You're not doing the activity any less by fighting less... You're giving your nervous system time to recharge while you work on different aspects of your game. That results in motor learning and improvement at a greater rate. To learn it's been shown that doing little bits and putting it together results in greater performance, doing the same thing over and over again results in performance decrements. Competition is very stressful, especially when your opponent is trying to render you unconscious. Skills are memories, stress has a negative impact on memory.
    The only thing fighters of the old days have over fighters today is toughness. For some people that's what boxing is all about, being tough. I equate toughness with stupidity personally.

    You don't think if you saw less NBA games during the season the quality would be higher? The reason they play so often is because of money. Why do you think teams pace themselves throughout a season?
     
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    :lol: so boxing books and newspapers are not allowed because they're "not reputable" but links on the internet are!?

    Also, you've been shown a link by an additional poster where a researcher has made a very similar claim regarding the number of pro boxers in the world.

    You're throwing both of these out in favour of your own opinion - totally unbacked by any of the statistics you are demanding of us. It seems a little biased and desperate.

    And your opinion is somehow valid where boxing books and newspapers are not?

    You clearly don't understand just how much activity existed in the first two thirds of the 20th century as far as boxing was concerned.
     
  13. dealt_with

    dealt_with Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    No they're not valid, unless those newspapers and books (or you) can present a source to a reputable statistic record keeping organisation that anybody can look at then whatever is said is meaningless. Are you telling me that you believe everything you read in a newspaper? :lol:

    I'm not saying you should share my opinion, and I'm not going to blindly subscribe to your opinion when common sense says otherwise.
    You haven't shown anything and neither have I. What I do know is that Eastern Bloc fighters are turning professional now and doing very well. Is it a coincidence that American boxing has gone missing at the same time? I don't know, but I doubt it.
     
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I regard my sources - The Observer, War Baby, Mike Silver - as more reputable than your sources (none).
     
  15. dealt_with

    dealt_with Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Good for you, but those aren't sources any more than my Uncle Sue is.