Boxers most consider great, that you don't

Nonito is rightly regarded as great lower weight puncher, but he shouldn’t be judged as a multi-weight champ, who was legitimate champ at what, 1, 2 weights?

Still impressive but plenty of fighters in the lower weights have done that.

He has always been very one dimensional as well. Saying that, I credit him for being a legit banger south of featherweight. He’s right up there with the best in that regard.

 

Whitaker was indeed a great fighter.

You have to actually understand boxing to appreciate his vast skills.

He didn't have the luxury of having the Latin based WBA and WBC on his side, so was screwed against Ramirez and Chavez.

I was not a fan. He had a crass personality. He did not have an exciting style.

But I respected him as a great fighter.

 

To each their own, in my opinion, he is of course a legitimate multi-weight champion and it was at 4 weights, with 13 world title fight wins across those 4 divisions...and I think 2 losses

 

The bolded and underlined is the key factor.

 

Thx. Where can I see his Muay Thai fights

 

Can't make up my mind on where to place him but I agree that he's questionable.

 

Yeah, he wasn't pillow fisted by any means, a sharp-looking hitter which yer dad seems to agree with. Fire and spite in his punches no doubt, his jab-uppercut from the outside combo was wizard. I more meant that he didn't hit hard enough for his overall style, a shade more boxer-puncher than defensive savant/total pure boxer despite the great feet, jab and elusiveness. Winstone was the same,Rose too to some degree. He could get drawn into dogfights, could Walter and didn't have to the power to always get away with it as well as being cut-prone and not Pep-level elusive. Great talent though, a little genius.

 

Benitez was also a great fighter.

Subtlety, nuance lost on some, I guess.

 

Next to Joel Casamayor.

 

Benitez beat Cervantes when Cervantes was still great. He also dethroned a decent champ in Palomino and put an absolute clinic (some scribes gave Duran two rounds) on a Duran looking to redeem himself after No Mas. (Truth be told he also would have comprehensively outboxed the Duran who beat Moore. The Duran who lost to Benitez would also have flogged Moore just to put things in context.) On top of this Benitez has some good non pinnacle wins and won titles in three divisions. His losses to SRL and Hearns were pretty decent losses.

 

YouTube

 

I've just been rewatching Antonio Gomez vs Saijo, Gomez really was a genuinely excellent fighter. A really refined technician and terrific counterpuncher with an easy, loose style and two-fisted power. The ending to the Saijo fight was some brutal pinpoint punching. I dunno if anyone can shed more light on his wins over De Jesus and Cervantes and how legit they are; they both took place in Venezuela iirc, a country known for dodgy officiating in that time period. It looks awesome on paper even if Cervantes was green at the time.

He was really unlucky, Gomez, to come along at the same time as the even greater Marcel, I've always thought he would've been a very interesting foil for the young Arguello.

 

For sure he wasn't a puncher but you got to remember that he boxed most of his career outside his own weight division right up to featherweight. When dad and Walter were due to have their return in 68 there was talk of the winner fighting Winstone for the featherweight title. Walter was only a flyweight really. Me dad told me that Eddie Thomas said Howard would have spanked both their arses on the same night, dad found that amusing. Howard defended his European title fight on the same bill.

 

Funny enough dad described Lionel as a sharp puncher as well, I suppose both Walter and Lionel had fast hands. I remember watching Keith Wallace get stopped by Antoine Montero on a body shot. Dad shook his head and said top fighters shouldn't get stopped by a body punch. Single shot he was talking about because he knew the value of body punching. It was one of his strengths to wear fighters down that way, he wasn't a puncher either. Surprisingly though he said the only fighter that did hurt him with a body shot was Rose. You could see where it happened if the film was still up on youtube. Rose hit him with three beauties on the trot but you didn't see any reaction from dad. Lionel would never of known.

 

Well, your old fella was in a much better position to judge than me, Al, so fair do's. Rose always struck me as a light hitter for his size at the weight, though like you say his speed and timing probably gave him a sharp edge that caught people out. I mean, your Dad was durable too, wasn't he?