Boxers that were world class but never made world class money

Sam Langford's biggest career purse was £2,500, for fighting Iron Hague, his manager, Joe Woodman bet all of it on Sam to win.
Langford split $13,000 with Ketchel when they fought,unfortunately Ketchel got $9000 of it.

 

Bert Gilroy's biggest purse was one or both of his fights in S. Africa for around £750.00.

His fight against Cerdan was for £680.00 and in his second fight with Woodcock he recieved £500. In his 10 years at the Top his purses would range from as little £50 to those figures already mentioned. Good money for the 1940s, however Mills made £65K out of boxing and McAvoy probably made at least half that and more. I'm sure Bert deserved more.

So you might average £100 per fight, times 75 fights in his 10 years at the Top. When you include his big purses & betting money he might have added on another 50%, a good middleclass life, but not the same as his champion peers made.

 

I'm not suggesting that Gilroy should not have earned more £££, but was he world class? Gilroy had only 5 fights against what could loosely be termed world class opponents, he lost them all ,4 by stoppage.

 

Gilroy became world classed in 1938, and as you know stayed on top till 1948...

McVey you've been through this before, I've told you to read up on the man, you don't seem to bother. his stoppages, Mill's questioned, a robbery, Woodcock was the No.3 HW in the world, and even their first fight near caused a riot. Cerdan, Gilroy was severely weight drained as you know, drying out 48 hrs before the fight and still never made the weight.

read up on the man, what are you afraid of, there has never been a No.1 Contender in Boxing History, for as long as Gilroy the middleweight, who suffered as much and waited as the long.

 

Why would I be afraid?:huh

Cerdan was conceding 11.25 lbs to Gilroy , yet stopped him in 4 rds.

What made Gilroy a world class fighter in1938? Winning a Scottish area title over a 7-4-1 opponent?

Number 1 contender for a british title?
Gilroy was never rated in the world top ten.
Gilroy never beat a world class opponent.
Don Cockell was not rated when he beat Gilroy.

You have previously said Gilroy was ahead at the time of the stoppage against Mills.

The report I read says that the referee, C .B .Thomas stopped the fight to save Gilroy from unnecessary punishment.

Gilroy was down for a count of 9 in that fight.


Woodcock was rated when he beat Gilroy he floored him 6 times for a 2 rds stoppage. He also kod him in 6rds.

I repeat Gilroy never beat a world class fighter .

He may have got the short end of some decisions, thems the breaks , but his record does not show him to be a top flight boxer.

I applaud your loyalty JG, but feel it is a trifle vociferous , and lacking in objectivity.

 

Unfortunately Ken was his own worse enemy at times, he became hell bent on self-managing his career and didnt do himself any favours by doing so. He did however make enough money to buy his own hotel after his retirement, unfortunately his first wife cleaned him out when they got divorced. He was in the news only a few years ago saying he was going to start unlicesenced fights for need of cash... i can only hope that it was a publicity stunt as he was a pensioner by that stage

 

completely objective McVey, I have never stated anything that was'nt already reported for me, nothing.

I looked, I read, I gathered hundreds of reports & commentries, I crossed referenced and it has never amounted to anything different. As I sayed, it was already spoken long before me!

P.S thats what the captioned sayed under the Woodcock II stoppage not the Mills fight... Gilroy ahead at the close was Malcolm Turner reporting on Mills, among others, BN and such.

No point here, it always gets down too English patriotism. Gilroy himself NEVER blames the fighters, but you, the fans, can't bare to think that McAvoy, Roderick, Mills and R & D Turpin just might have to account for one little fact.

these are Boxing sites and we review and accept certain facts re fighters when, robbed, ducked, weight drained and cheated... but not one English fan has given this to Bert Gilroy, and the fact that most of the Boxing world & fans still don't know a lot about him you are banking on this.

but every other 6 months or so more and more comes to light. anyone willing to look into it will find what I have found, and then when enough people start talking about it more, what will the English patriots do then.

I myself am about to get over 200 more further copies of fight reports, and commentaries, they are out there now thanks to cyberspace.:hat

 

I've never let patriotism get in the way of objectivity.

I was a big fan of Buchanan ,McGowan, Driscoll, Lynch,Wilde, Winstone etc ,patriotism has its place but not when making cool, unbiased judgements.

You attribute your own jingoism to me, and it is badly misplaced

The report was from the Mills/ Gilroy fight.

Now explain to me how a fighter,who never beat a world class boxer, and only fought 4 , is himself world class?

While you are at it ,also explain what Gilroy accomplished from 1938 onwards ,that makes you say he was world class?

 

To Thistle1 and McVey.

I know nothing of bert gilroy but i may start having a look at what i can as a result of this thread. I want to ask a question as i think i may be missing something here.

One of you claim Gilroy was never rated yet the other claims there was never a No1 contender in boxing history as Gilroy the middleweight. This, to me, seems an extraordinary gulf in 2 claims (if by chance im NOT missing something), and surely there must be a simple way of sorting out whos right and whose mistaken.

 

Gilroy was No.1 UK from 1939-48, middleweight 1939-45, L-HW 1945-50...
he was also technically No.4 HW from 44-48 as he couldn't get title fights at his own weight and he fought the 3 Top HW's in the Country in 5 contests, 3 recieving some level of question, Woodcock X2, Mills and Ken Shaw X2. These boys were 1,2,3 respectfully.

start with these links and follow from there... examine closely and all of the questionable decisions are on record and can be seen first hand from a copy of his scrapbook.

http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?p=13099884

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/w0906-glen.html

http://www.pugilistica.com/begifiprbyau.html

note to the video interveiw mentioned from fellow contender Jock Taylor stating Gilroy's ranking and status, there's plenty here to water the mouth. I'll be glad to answer any questions.

 

The problem with this information is that its provided by you.

Please show whom Gilroy beat after 1938 to rank him as world class?

 

That's rated in the UK, not world rated different thing entirely.
On the UK front ,whose ratings are you quoting?

 

To be fair to Gilroy, if he was number 1 contender in Britain for the British title, and was ducked for so long by the champions who themselves were world-ranked and/or future world champions (or I should say 'ducked by their managers'), there's probably a lot to the claim that he was 'world class'.

Just as there are fighters who sit on top of the world rankings and get ducked by champions, there are fighters who get frozen out by the entire top ten too. It happens.
Professional boxing, you need the right connections.

 

It should be noted that Thistle is Gilroys grandson. Not exactly an unbiased source.

Unforgiven's comments would be true if Gilroy didnt fail miserably every time he stepped up in class. The only reason his grandson says he was so great from 1938 on is because that period culminated with an unbeaten streak in his record. The problem with making that claim in regards to his unbeaten streak is that he didnt fight anybody worth mentioning.

Prior to that point in time he lost regularly, and surprise when he stepped up the competition he lost regularly. Its easy to say x ducked y during the 40s when you completely ignore the fact that there was a war on and the natural order things was in complete turmoil.

Its a little far fetched to believe that every loss, KO, and draw he suffered was a fix or a bad decision. Its also hard to believe that he was somehow past his prime when he was experiencing losses to the top guys he fought since his last fight was when he was 32 and he started fighting and losing to top fighters when he was in his mid twenties. Not exactly ancient. Cerdan was outweighed by nearly fifteen pounds and was two years older when he obliterated Gilroy.

Nobody was talking about Gilroy as a forgotten great until his grandson came on the scene.

 

Thistle is usng British ratings for domestic titles , not world ratings such as" The Ring" in which Gilroy was never rated.