Boxers who would have done well v. kickboxers or MMA fighters

Discussion in 'MMA Forum' started by FighterInTheWind, May 2, 2020.


  1. FighterInTheWind

    FighterInTheWind Member Full Member

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    Not really apples and oranges, I am afraid. The fundamental problem is that McDojo" phenomenon in the West has given the traditional martial arts a very bad reputation, and some in the West view it purely through this lens. Yet martial arts practiced in the U.S. or in other Western countries v. in East Asia are radically different. There are enough of hardcore schools left in East Asia for it not be a "once in a blue moon" phenomenon but a significant minority phenomenon. Also, you seem to lump together those martial arts that have no combat component or practice at all (for instance, taichi) and those that still have full contact sparring, albeit in a watered down form now, such as TKD. But even TKD - which is frequently made fun of these days - retains the full contact sparring. Every WTF-affiliated TKD school has full contact sparring as its centerpiece, as I said. This is likely the majority of TKD schools, probably even in the West. And while you do have body guard, it is full contact, and I've seen people break their ribs on a side kick through the body guard - in addition to obviously getting seriously messed up on head kicks. But if your biases are such that all traditional martial arts teach "touch fighting," and none of its students can fight, then I can't help you.
     
  2. FighterInTheWind

    FighterInTheWind Member Full Member

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    Addendum:

    Sorry if I come off as a bit short-tempered and even condescending there. But this is a topic I've rehashed many times with other people, and I get rather tired of it arguing against people with minimal real martial arts experience (I do not mean to imply you are among them).
     
  3. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Full Member

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    Dempsey first and foremost
    Rubin Carter
    Fitz
    Paul Berlinbach ( olympic wrestling background)
    Beterbiev ( all the Dagestan fighters grew up wrestling)
     
  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Vitali Klitschko. A wold amateur and professional champion at both boxing a kickboxing

    You can see a young Vitali, he's got serious range with the kick and mixes in boxing well in the middle range. Very mobile too. I have no idea where he rates as a Kickboxing champion.

     
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  5. Charlietf

    Charlietf Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Well , i have trained karate too when i was 16 i know what i am talking about( i got boring to be honest). I have a little question for you, how many mma champions (karatekas and taekwondo practicants) are there? Lyoto machida Was a karateka and he was de most decent i think, you need a Grappling/wrestling style for the ground part and another one from striking and the most of the guys are thai boxers,kick boxers,boxers, sambo fighters.. If the karate was that brutal etc then you would have much more successful karatecas in mma and it is not the case. I will not keep debating this topic. Have a nice day
     
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  6. FighterInTheWind

    FighterInTheWind Member Full Member

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    There are actually a ton of MMA competitors - and at extremely high levels - from a traditional karate/taekwondo background originally. The problem in naming these is that most top level MMA guys have now trained in multiple disciplines, because - as you say - you need to be well-rounded. For instance, Anderson Silva's first martial art was TKD; in fact, I believe it is still his highest ranking martial art. You can tell his kicks are TKD-originated by looking at them. But without some BJJ he learned later, he would obviously not have been as dominant. (He certainly wouldn't have beaten Sonnen, for instance, without BJJ.) Still, wouldn't you say it was the kicks that defines Silva, and he would have been a high level competitor with just pure TKD?
     
  7. Charlietf

    Charlietf Well-Known Member Full Member

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  8. Charlietf

    Charlietf Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Haha anderson silva always was a muay thai fighter so nice try
    This content is protected
     
  9. FighterInTheWind

    FighterInTheWind Member Full Member

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    I think you asked about Kyokusin: Bas Rutten is a Kyokusin guy - very high level. I am not sure how good you think he was in MMA; perhaps you think he was too early in MMA history to judge. But most would agree he was one of the greats in MMA history; and his main weapon were his kicks. Of course, with kicks alone, he wasn't as dominant - check his early losses to Ken Shamrock. But when he learned some submission fighting, he was dominant.
     
  10. FighterInTheWind

    FighterInTheWind Member Full Member

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    Silva did study Muay Thai; but his first martial art was TKD. He's spoken about this multiple times, and he's talked about trying out for the Olympic team. He's also 5th dan black belt in it - which I believe is his highest rank in any martial art. Further, you don't have to even know his background to analyze his kicks.
     
  11. FighterInTheWind

    FighterInTheWind Member Full Member

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    By the way, we can respectfully disagree, but no need to get ad hominem. I am too old and short-tempered to deal with it these days ;)
     
  12. Charlietf

    Charlietf Well-Known Member Full Member

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    How many champions(karatekas or taekwondo fighters) are there in ufc? How many champions from kick boxing,jiu jitsu, judo,sambo or muay thai?
    It is All you need to know..
     
  13. Charlietf

    Charlietf Well-Known Member Full Member

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    The point is that he was good as he was because he trained muay thai and jiu jitsu, not because he trained taekwondo when he was young, in fact his striking style was muay thai when he was ufc champ. In fact he used much more wing chun than taekwondo in mma fights.
    Khabib is black belt in judo too so what?but he is a sambo fighter. Silva was a muay thai fighter when he was fighting at his peak. For example machida yes,he was a karateka and did not need any other stricking style. But he was one of the few exceptions
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
  14. FighterInTheWind

    FighterInTheWind Member Full Member

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    As I've said, separating whether a guy is a "TKD guy" or "karate guy" or a "kickboxing guy," etc. is very difficult, because most top athletes take an eclectic approach now. For instance, virtually all high-level kickboxers start out with a deep base in traditional striking arts. He who goes into kickboxing directly is the anomaly, and I know none off the top of my head. Do you consider someone like Wonder Boy Thompson a kickboxer but not a karate guy? That'd be absurd, and even he'd say he's more a karate guy than a kickboxer. Kickboxing represents more his adaptation of his fundamental karate background; karate more essential to his craft.
     
  15. FighterInTheWind

    FighterInTheWind Member Full Member

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    I guess we will have to disagree. You look at Silva, and you see Muay Thai; I see TKD kicks. It's a perspectival gap that cannot be bridged, I am afraid.
     


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