Boxing 88 : Tyson - Dempsey

In Toledo, Dempsey stood up to the same uppercut Jess Willard used to kill Bull Young. Tyson never killed anybody with his. Tyson himself probably has doubts that he could have taken Jack.

Dempsey: "A champion is someone who gets up when he can't."

Tyson: Didn't get up against McBride when he could.

Holyfield was the same size as Dempsey when he became cruiserweight champion, and he certainly proved perfectly capable of playing with the big boys. I have no problem visualizing Dempsey handling Tyson. Jack could be fantastically dangerous when scared or hurt. When it comes to intangibles, Dempsey has all the advantages.

 

Funny, i must have missed those moments when a 190lbs Holyfield was beating up heavyweights.


Holyfield had an iron chin and that has carried him in many fights at HW (including the Tyson fight). How many of the 220lbs+ monster punchers did Dempsey prove himself against? Willard never landed much, neither did Fulton. Firpo did and he knocked Dempsey silly.

 

I'm not really criticizing Dempsey here. My post was only intendend to pull your chains a bit Sonny, and it apparently worked like a charm. I will say however that the whole thing about McNeeley is a joke. Frankly if you think that Tyson givng him a fight is bad after 4 years of inactivity, is as bad as Dempsey fighting MIske for the title, then lets just have a beer and call it quits, because I don't know how else to refute this argument.

I just got through celebrating my daughter's 1st birthday, and this is how I feel :cheers

Of all the posters on ESB Sonny, you're the one who I would most want to buy a beer at a pub. You're the biggest pain in my arse, but I love ya big boy.....:good

You're my man Sonny.....I LOVE YOU..... And I don't give a crap about who would win between Tyson and Dempsey. You pick and I'll follow.......

 

I think he'd have done better at heavyweight if he'd have come in even lighter than 190. :yep

 

:good

 

Well he certainly did against Willard and Fulton.

 

I won't bother to rehash our disagreements about Dempsey/Firpo again. I will say that I've always wondered how Holyfield would have done against the heavyweights he defeated if he still weighed 190. Likewise, I've wondered how the 170 pound Mike Spinks of the David Sears fight might have done against Holmes and Cooney. I'm not entirely sold on the notion that increased weight is as important as increased strength.

 

Of course, Dempsey with his duty as world's champion, is worse, but I was just pointing out that giving McNeeley that payday was actually an even bigger case of "charity", and the result even more of a foregone conclusion.

Congratulations, man.
LOVE YOU TOO
:good

 

One question.

If the Tyson who fought Holyfield had gone up against the cruiserweight version of Holyfield would you bet on Tyson?

Would the diference in weight have turned the fight in Tysons favour?

 

And that's what the steroids were for.

Dempsey and Holyfield are two men of the same biometric size. Holyfield just needed to cheat and use steroids to compete at heavyweight.

 

Have you looked at Miske's post-Dempsey record? That paycheck saved him, what Dempsey did was actually a good thing, even if he brutalized him in the fight. Besides, in terms of competition, it's no different than Marciano fighting Cockell or Ali fighting Wepner other than the fact that Dempsey was doing it because his friend needed the money. Another good example being Joe Louis fighting John Henry Lewis because he needed money.

Prove it.

 

Nice trolling 9/10

Congrats on your daughters first birthday.

 

The thing about the Billy Miske criticism is that Dempsey actually beat a younger version of Miske - who nobody claims was sick at the time, as far as I know - in 1918.
He drew with him over 10 and later beat him over 6. Not his greatest performance, but a good win nontheless over a decent fighter.

So when someone lists Billy Miske as a good fighter Dempsey beat, it is valid.

Of course, Miske lost a few after that, and was really in a slight career slump when handed a shot at the title, plus he was "sick". But let's not be too harsh on Dempsey for being "charitable". Those were harsh times.

I dont actually hear anyone who rates Dempsey highly saying Dempsey's legacy rides on his title fight with Billy Miske. That's an argument that has been falsely imposed by Dempsey critics, a strawman.

Still, most accounts agree that Dempsey made short work of Miske in emphatic fashion, putting the "sick has-been" out of his misery ala Louis-JHLewis or Ali-C.Williams.

Dempsey was dreadfully inactive as champion, yes.
But he fought a heck of a lot of fights to get there, and has 3 or 4 very good wins and performances pre-title.