Boxing fans are why boxing (in the USA) is going downhill...

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by WiDDoW_MaKeR, Mar 20, 2010.


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  1. LukeO

    LukeO Erik Morales is God Full Member

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    American fans were spoiled by tyson and ali.
    If you're not a mega star they don't give a ****, sadly.
     
    LukeO, Mar 20, 2010
    LukeO, Mar 20, 2010
    #151
  2. BoxingFanNo1

    BoxingFanNo1 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I believe it is you who needs checked.

    How come Pacquiao can do 600k+ and sell 50k+ tickets when A) He's not American and B) not even fighting an American opponent?
    Howcome Mayweather - Mosley will do close to 2 million if not more?

    If Klitschko was Tysonesque he'd do great numbers, but he isn't, so he doesn't.

    Boxing is thriving in other countries sure, but dying in America, no way.
     
    BoxingFanNo1, Mar 20, 2010
    BoxingFanNo1, Mar 20, 2010
    #152
  3. BoxingFanNo1

    BoxingFanNo1 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Cotto - Pac, 2 non Americans done 1.25
    PBF - JMM did over 1 million
    Pac - Hatton, 2 non Americans did 800k not including UK.

    What you seem to forget is that with the emergence of the UFC over the last few years a lot of fans are paying for MMA rather than boxing, there's two large combat sports fighting it out now whereas in the 90's it was only one.

    But if the fans feel they'll get their moneys worth they'd pay as I've shown.

    Americans aren't going to pay to see Wlad - Chambers, because Chambers isn't upto scratch, and they find Wlads style non appealing.

    If Wlad appealed to the American public he'd do numbers as big if not bigger than Pac.:good
     
    BoxingFanNo1, Mar 20, 2010
    BoxingFanNo1, Mar 20, 2010
    #153
  4. WiDDoW_MaKeR

    WiDDoW_MaKeR ESB Hall of Fame Member Full Member

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    WTF are you talking about doing great numbers? See... you are only talking about in America. First of all... Wlad has never fought on HBO PPV... so I don't get this numbers **** that you keep talking about. Wlad doesn't believe in regular HBO PPV's because he doesn't like making fans pay 50 bucks to watch him fight on TV. Of course... they did the internet PPV for this fight because it was the only chance that some people would get to see him fight. Wlad fights on Regular HBO and his ratings when he fights on a regular time slot are just fine. Besides that... the man just drew 60,000 fans at his last fight, and 51,000 fans at tonight's fight. Obviously he is doing great numbers. He is the biggest cash cow in the Heavyweight division.

    Like I said... for some reason you relate the United States and/or HBO with the entire world. This fight wasn't televised in the United States because of March Madness and the fact that no American network wanted to run against it. HBO might not have televised it anyways, because they are too busy putting together useless cards like Tarver vs Dawson XX for their regular HBO telecasts... but some American Network would have picked up the fight had it not been competing against March Madness. HBO is angry that Wlad keeps fighting overseas... however you sure as hell can't blame him when he is drawing those kinds of numbers and making much more money for himself and his opponents by doing so.


    Also... you are talking about Pac and Mayweather. They are the only people that can even sell PPV's anymore in the United States. You are proving my point. Neither of them will be fighting much longer either... then what? Of course someone else might come along like it used to happen. However, here's the problem... MMA has taken hold of most of the younger fighting fan base in America. People don't follow the young boxers like they used to... which is why less and less stars are being born. Hell, it took Mayweather and Pac this long to be able to draw those sorts of numbers, and that is just because of fighting Oscar and being on 24/7. Oscar is done fighting, so no more stars can be born off of fighthing him. He kept the boxing boat floating as long as he could and created a couple of attractions before he left. However, once those are gone it is looking VERY bleak for boxing in America.
     
    WiDDoW_MaKeR, Mar 20, 2010
    WiDDoW_MaKeR, Mar 20, 2010
    #154
  5. BoxingFanNo1

    BoxingFanNo1 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Again I'm talking about the American market? Well of course I am, it was the basis of my argument, which you induced by calling the American boxing public fickle, you were the one complaing, I countered.

    I never said America was the whole world don't put words in my mouth, it is however the biggest market, look at the figures over the years, up and down, so to assume it's dying because it's down isn't wise.

    It was YOU who brought up the American market then ask why I keep bringing it up, wtf?:huh

    Boxing isn't dying in America, I've proved it, if a fighter comes along that they like to watch they'll pay, period. You also forget that economically people can't shell out the way they used to for years previous, did you factor that into you 'dying' scenario? No, probably not.

    See what you have here is a balanced view vs a nuthugger (That's how you come across).
    Don't believe I'm balanced? Check my post history, I view Haye as an underdog and he'll prob get ko'd by Wlad & Vitali, I said Vitali is a top 10 H2H HW etc, I wonder how many posts you have looking at the Klitschko's and the boxing world that surrounds them from both sides?
     
    BoxingFanNo1, Mar 20, 2010
    BoxingFanNo1, Mar 20, 2010
    #155
  6. RSBonos

    RSBonos Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Anyway you try to explain it, the simple reason is that Wlad's fights are terrible to watch. He fights like a scared fighter against opponents who are overmatched and even more scared.

    The heavyweight division has offered almost no entertainment for the past 7 years.

    The brothers can keep dominating for another decade and no one would really care in the US because they fight like big sissies.
     
    RSBonos, Mar 20, 2010
    RSBonos, Mar 20, 2010
    #156
  7. WiDDoW_MaKeR

    WiDDoW_MaKeR ESB Hall of Fame Member Full Member

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    It's so hard to have a discussion with you, because I honestly don't think that your reading comprehension is very well. Your responses don't match the post that you are responding to. I am not bitching at you for bringing up boxing in America... I am pointing out the fact that you keep acting like Wlad is doing these bad numbers and figures... when it's all bull****. Wlad is selling out massive Arena's and has millions of viewers for all of his fights. Just not in America. Also, he has never done an HBO PPV, so we have no idea what his "numbers" are here either... which you act like you do or something. During prime time boxing slots on HBO he always brought in good ratings, as did Vitali.

    Boxing IS going downhill in America, and it is thriving in different parts of the world. This is obvious. If not by the simple fact that we don't even get to see televised fights for the Heavyweight World title... but also by the fact that only two fighters can put up decent PPV numbers... both of which I already explained where PPV stars spawned out of being opposite Oscar De La Hoya on the 24/7 show which created the new slight explosion for just a couple of fighters. Neither Floyd or Pac were big draws beforehand. As I also said... neither of these fighters will be relevant in 5 years... then what? Look at most of the boxing gyms throughout the country... they are being converted into MMA gyms, or at least Boxing/MMA gyms. Not all of them... but a huge shitload of them are. MMA has taken control of the young fan base in this country, and boxing is seriously suffering for it. A couple good PPV's a year from only 2 fighters isn't going to change that. As a matter of fact... the fact that the only two real draws are fighting only on PPV is a horrible setback for boxing in itself. It really limits the viewing audience. Yeah... Mayweather and Pac make out like bandits, but boxing sure doesn't spawn a bunch of new fans. Now... if Mayweather and Pac were on regular HBO, that would be good for boxing. If Mayweather and Pac were on regular Network TV such as ABC, CBS, NBC, ect... that would flat out GREAT for boxing. The amount of viewers would be tremendous. However, that will never happen... and as it stands... boxing is going downhill fast as hell in this country.

    It's just reality. Hell, I love boxing, and I live in the United States. However the truth is the truth. The promoters aren't doing any justice in making things better either. Having people pay 50 bucks for a fight, and then have them sit through a horrible undercard is yet another slap in the face. The marketing is just horrible. The 24/7 show is the only meaningful thing they have going right now.

    BTW... have you noticed that you keep quoting me as saying that boxing is "dying", when I clearly said over and over again that boxing is going "downhill" in America? Pretty big difference. Boxing will never die, that's just silly. However, it is clearly going downhill in America. If you disagree with that... then you really are out of touch.
     
    WiDDoW_MaKeR, Mar 21, 2010
    WiDDoW_MaKeR, Mar 21, 2010
    #157
  8. BoxingFanNo1

    BoxingFanNo1 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    WM, you can write me a 100 page essay on the American market, I'd still disagree.

    If Mike Tyson was around today would he be doing:

    A) Less numbers
    B) About the same
    C) More

    I believe he'd be doing roughly the same if not a little more. Fans are drawn to guys like that, he was the biggest star on the planet for christ sake. And since I believe this I can't buy into your boxing is dying theory.

    Maybe you should look at the all round boxing scene right now before assuming boxing is dying in America, great vs great match-ups are pretty slim compared to other eras wouldn't you agree? Isn't this more plausible than simply it's dying?

    If Wlad or Vitali had opponents of prime Holyfield, Bowe, Tyson, Lewis calibre you'd find the Klitschko's doing 1 million plus no problem in the US.

    Boxing has a larger reach across the globe than it ever has so of course it's growing in other countries. Today there are over 1 billion tv's worldwide, that's a huge increase compared to the 80's and 90's, funny enough about the same amount are sold each year in the USA, no real increase, coincidence?
     
    BoxingFanNo1, Mar 21, 2010
    BoxingFanNo1, Mar 21, 2010
    #158
  9. WiDDoW_MaKeR

    WiDDoW_MaKeR ESB Hall of Fame Member Full Member

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    See what I mean... your reading comprehension is just horrible. I don't even think that you actually read my posts.:rofl

    Once again... even though you keep quoting me incorrectly... I never said that "boxing is dying".... I never said that "boxing was dying in America". I SAID THAT BOXING IS GOING DOWNHILL IN THE USA! You are arguing with me while agreeing with me and providing examples to prove my damn point. This **** is amazing. :rofl
     
    WiDDoW_MaKeR, Mar 21, 2010
    WiDDoW_MaKeR, Mar 21, 2010
    #159
  10. tolindoy

    tolindoy UBESTRIDTE MESTER Full Member

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    Slick Black american fighters.....YEAH RIGHT!!!! bwahahahahaha..
     
    tolindoy, Mar 21, 2010
    tolindoy, Mar 21, 2010
    #160
  11. maciek4

    maciek4 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Dimitrienko was outboxed and outclassed by Chambers and Dimitrienko is 1 inch taller, 2 inch longer reach and weights more than Wladimir. Wladimir is just that good, size doesnt matter here.
     
    maciek4, Mar 21, 2010
    maciek4, Mar 21, 2010
    #161
  12. BoxingFanNo1

    BoxingFanNo1 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Downhill, dying what's the bloody difference?
     
    BoxingFanNo1, Mar 21, 2010
    BoxingFanNo1, Mar 21, 2010
    #162
  13. WiDDoW_MaKeR

    WiDDoW_MaKeR ESB Hall of Fame Member Full Member

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    Ahhh... A LOT? You don't think that boxing is going downhill right now in the USA? I clearly already addressed this. Boxing is will never die... so it isn't dying... that's just ******ed. However, it is definitely going downhill. Now, I am not going to keep repeating myself again, just because you don't take the time to read before you respond.
     
    WiDDoW_MaKeR, Mar 21, 2010
    WiDDoW_MaKeR, Mar 21, 2010
    #163
  14. Ambition_Def

    Ambition_Def **** the people. Full Member

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    Tell Joey Gamache that size doesn't matter.

    When all things can be considered equal (that is, Wladimir being as skilled as Chambers), Wladimir should always win because he's 35lbs heavier and 5 inches taller.

    Dimitrenko only proved that he was **** in losing to a much smaller opponent. Kinda like Tye Fields getting flattened by Monte Barrett.

    They are exceptions at the top level. Primo Carnera stuff. They got there on being big and little else. Same reason why Valuev seems to lose every other fight to a guy half his size.
     
    Ambition_Def, Mar 21, 2010
    Ambition_Def, Mar 21, 2010
    #164
  15. maciek4

    maciek4 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Why should non-Americans love Mayweather? His fights are predictable, dull, one-sided. If he is so good then why doesnt he go all out and knock these guys out ? Thats the kind of logic you guys put.
     
    maciek4, Mar 21, 2010
    maciek4, Mar 21, 2010
    #165
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