Boxing fourm 24 classic fight reviews | Ali Vs Frazier 1 deadline May 21st.

I'm going to say:
Entertainment-5
Significance-5
Skill-5
Heart-4
Close-3

My score was as follows:
1-Ali
2-Ali
3-Ali
4-Frazier
5-Frazier
6-Ali
7-Frazier
8-Frazier
9-Ali
10-Frazier
11-Frazier
12-Frazier
13-Frazier
14-Ali
15-Frazier

9-6 Frazier. So holy trio of @Mike Cannon, @swagdelfadeel, and @Pugguy, you could consider me one of your sympathizers, everyone else says Frazier won 10-5 lol. You guys raise a valid point there, Ali outpoints Frazier in probably 10 rounds at least, although somewhat deceptively, Ali misses a lot of punches in his big flurries, and it sometimes looks like he scored more than he did, but the point still stands he outscored Joe. I have three main hang ups, the latter two being more important for me. 1) Don Dunphy indicated more than once that Ali's clinches (which were not excessive here like in other fights) could be meriting a detraction of points. I don't know if this is true or not though. Seems like a good thing to deduct for though. 2) I had a hard time scoring many of the rounds, not because the punch number comparisons were close, and this is probably what most are thinking I would imagine, but the reason Joe got the rounds I gave him is because every punch Joe threw looked as damaging as half a dozen or so of Ali's. Joe definitely looked like the beaten man in the fight, but the truth is, Joe's fight plan proved a major hiccup for Ali, and totally derailed his game, Joe's fight game was not derailed at all. Throughout the ebb and flow of the fight, Joe's punches appeared to be more damaging, more effective. 3) I personally think it looks like Ali took a knee in the 11th, so I have Frazier scoring 2 KD's in the FOTC.

 

No edits here, this is the official thing.

 

Good post Will or should I say Good Will Posting?

Yes, Dunphy did mention several times that Ali’s clinching could hurt him - I could be wrong but I recall that Don also noted a few occasions when Joe himself initiated the clinch.

Deductions for clinching seems to be a very vaguely and subjectively applied criterion though.

So if Ali clinches a lot in one round but lands the most punches - a judge is going to mentally deduct for the clinching to perhaps make it an even round or actually give the round to Joe in all possibility?

Also, did or should a judge even be allowed to “deduct” any points for clinching - isn’t the ref the only empowered official to adjudicate and direct the judges on same?

There also used to be the cloudy musing from commentary “The scoring heavily depends on IF you like the aggressor or the boxer.”

A straight up admission of the subjective nature of the scoring - even among official judges.

 

The points tally isn't that narrow for me, if one uses a 10-point must system. Frazier is about 5 ahead at the end...but that seems a bit harsh on Ali, despite it being true.

 

Entertainment--- 3
Significance --- 5
Skill --------- 2.5
Heart -------- 5
Close --------- 3

I don’t see how anyone can, compared to the entirety of boxing see this as a “5/5 skilled fight” watching Ali make the same mistakes over and over, over and over… he did that for an entire career. Lol. It was partial to Frazier pretty early but we can’t ignore who is in those red trunks. Overall a good fight but a piece of history chiefly.

 

Great idea Austin. Keep this going!

 

Heres my scorecard and write up of the fight from last year.

Entertainment - 5
Significance - 5
Skills - 3
Heart - 5
Close - 4


Muhammad Ali vs Joe Frazier 1

1 Ali
2 Ali
3 Frazier
4 Ali
5 Ali
6 Frazier
7 Frazier
8 Frazier
9 Ali
10 Ali
11 Frazier 10-8
12 Frazier
13 Frazier
14 Ali
15 Frazier 10-8

143-140 Frazier in rounds 8-7 Frazier

So i decided to rewatch this fight with the recent bump in this thread, i'm not going to do a big write up. Because more knowledgeable posters than me have already said it better than what i could.

A few things i will say i thought Ali did well early on pot shotting Frazier at distance, now Frazier would land the best punches of the round. And i can see how some people may of scored them rounds for Frazier, but i thought Ali landed the more punches overall and landed some effective hard punches himself to win the early rounds.

The fight for me started to turn around after the 5th round, at this point in the fight i felt like Frazier was able to stop Ali from circling around the ring and trap him on the ropes. And land devasting hooks to the body and head.

To Ali's credit he did steal a few rounds in the 2nd half of the fight, including the 9th round when he got hurt and comeback to have Frazier in really bad trouble at the end of the round, definitely a stand out round and one of the best rounds in the fight, and the only time Frazier looked in real distress.

The 11th round now there's a few talking points about this round, 1 should the knockdown of been scored ? yes a punch did land but Ali did visibly seem to slip on his own accord and not from the punch itself i guess it's debatable, then we come to later in the round where Frazier did almost put down Ali legitimately. Now i thought Frazier hurt Ali so much in the last 30-40 seconds that he deserved a 10-8 round, and i'm sticking by the score i feel like that's one of the clearest 10-8 rounds you'll see IMO.

To Ali's credit i thought he comeback well, and fought well with Frazier in rounds 13 and 14, the 13th round was close with alot of even exchanges. But Frazier put Ali on the ropes and was the effective aggressor, so i felt like he deserved to edge this round based on that and again another stand out round in a great fight.

Now you don't need me to tell you about the classic 15th round knockdown, what may surprise you is that for 1:30 seconds of the round i had it a 10-7 round for Frazier as i felt he was that dominant. But Ali did enough in the 2nd half of the round for me not to give Frazier an extra point.

Overall a fantastic fight the classic boxer vs puncher skill vs will, and it is actually a close fight scoring it on a round by round basis rather than the 10 point must system.

PS i said wasn't going to do a big write up and well..... look here we are.

 

Hi i am in will post my scores after i have re watched the fight

 

Looking forward to reading your scorecard Noel.

 

Will probably post it tomorrow,planning to watch the fight tonight

 

I'd be interested to see if he scores round 11 10-8, i seem to be in the minority that scores it 10-8. But for me it's a clear 10-8 round for Frazier, he had Ali totally gone in the last 30 rounds and basically did everything but floor Ali.

 

Without necessarily agreeing or disagreeing, I definitely think it’s fair that you can see it that way.

I’d be surprised if there weren’t a reasonable number of other people who see it as you do.

Just a few thoughts on it.

Ali didn’t go down and did everything in his power to prevent himself from hitting the deck - so some might credit him it for that and think that he didn’t deserve a 10-8 score against him.

Also, and I’d have to rewatch to confirm, after initially being rocked (primarily from a left hook right on the button) causing his legs to dip badly - Ali’s teetering and tottering thereafter actually saved Ali from copping even more punches than he did during Joe’s follow up.

I thought Ali’s legs were more gone from the initial shots than subsequent punches landed. Ali’s good fortune perhaps, but his teetering this way and that actually made him a more difficult target.

Ali’s careering all over the ring was certainly dramatic which might have lent to an illusion of Joe landing more in follow up than he actually did.

And of course we saw Ali play act in the final seconds - holding his arms down as if he was almost out.

However, the irony was that the legacy of the initial hurt was still actually there - and whilst “acting” without getting hit his legs literally gave out on him again a bit and he stumbled backward.

 

Entertainment - 4
Significance - 5
Skills - 4
Heart - 5
Close - 3.5
My Scorecard
Round 1 10 - 9 Ali
Round 2 10 - 9 Ali
Round 3 10 - 9 Ali
Round 4 9 - 10 Frazier
Round 5 10 - 9 Ali
Round 6 9 - 10 Frazier
Round 7 9 - 10 Frazier
Round 8 9 - 10 Frazier
Round 9 10 - 9 Ali
Round 10 9 - 10 Frazier
Round 11 9 - 10 Frazier
Round 12 9 - 10 Frazier
Round 13 9 - 10 Frazier
Round 14 10- 9 Ali
Round 15 8 - 10 Frazier
144 - 140 Frazier
Just like to say how much i enjoyed doing this.Thanks Austinboxing