Boxing Is A Business Keeping The Casual Fan Entertained Is Very Important.

CST80 · Sep 8, 2014

seansanashee said: ↑

Boxing is a sport.

You don't see top football teams avoid each other.
You don't see top tennis players avoid each other.
You don't see top cricket teams avoid each other.
You don't see top baseball teams avoid each other.
You don't see top
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players avoid each other.

Top boxers avoiding each other is very bad for the sport but even darts (which is questionable as a sport) is becoming a more credible sport than boxing. Too many farces are happening in boxing.
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I agree it should be, that's what we all want, but the reality is ,as long as the carnival barkers known as promoters are involved, it won't and never will be.

Sweet Jones · Sep 8, 2014

Boxing Prospect said: ↑

At the end of the day the casuals want action. A lot of the little known names can deliver action at a fraction of the price. A promoter may need to invest a little but the pay in the long term is a better profit than paying the likes of Rod Salka an over-inflated purse.
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I posted this in another thread but it seems appropriate here as a response also:

Disagree with this strongly. Casuals barely understand action either, but they DO understand 'events'.

This is precisely why soccer, as a spectator sport, has in the past struggled in the U.S. Instead of selling the game for what it is, years were spent trying to sell 'action', i.e. goals (see MISL). Same reason hockey remains a niche sport, because old school hockey fans swear that 'casual fans' want to see the 'action' of fights and bench clearing brawls, when the reality is casuals flocked in droves to watch Olympic hockey, where fighting is outlawed and the premium is placed on skating.

You have to sell the sport for what it IS, not some caffeinated version. People may want to see more scoring in football, but that doesn't mean Arena Football is the answer to rope in casuals.

IMO, you have to sell 'events'. Soccer is now starting to really make inroads in the US for because the 'event' of the World Cup leads to people actually becoming interested and watching. US fans are starting to understand the sport BEYOND just goals and highlights, but not because of some *******ized video-game version being presented to them, but because they are now see and understand the things about the sport that are appealing (the strategy, the passion, the effort needed to create scoring opportunities, the talent level at a world class level, etc.).

This is also why I say you an honest media. Boxing does itself no favors when people (casuals) tune in and see networks more interested in selling the best the sport has to offer (Mayweather, RJJ, Hopkins,etc.) getting harassed by interviewees (Larry Merchant) over dumb isht instead of talking about their in-ring mastery, the thing that will actually bring them back.
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CST80 · Sep 8, 2014

Sweet Jones said: ↑

I posted this in another thread but it seems appropriate here as a response also:
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The only reason Americans cared for a few seconds about Soccer is because we thought we might have a chance at the World Cup, now everyone has back to not caring. Same with Cycling when Lance was winning everybody loved cycling he retired most of the fans disappeared.

Sweet Jones · Sep 8, 2014

CST80 said: ↑

The only reason Americans cared for a few seconds about Soccer is because we thought we might have a chance at the World Cup, now everyone has back to not caring. Same with Cycling when Lance was winning everybody loved cycling he retired most of the fans disappeared.
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You're basically proving my point. The surge in caring was 'event' based, not 'action' based. And I can say this for sure: more Americans understand the game, players, and strategy better post World Cup than did before.

Tiger Woods made watching golf an 'event'. Many golf fans now were born during Tigermania.

CST80 · Sep 8, 2014

Sweet Jones said: ↑

You're basically proving my point. The surge in caring was 'event' based, not 'action' based. And I can say this for sure: more Americans understand the game, players, and strategy better post World Cup than did before.

Tiger Woods made watching golf an 'event'. Many golf fans now were born during Tigermania.
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And when the event is over the casuals walk away, ratings have dropped for golf after Tiger started sucking. They may understand it more, but the same thing applies to synchronized swimming and figure skating during the Olympics as well, everyone knows everything while its on, but when the "event" is over they won't actively seek it out, we'll go back to watching basketball and football, what we consider "real sports".
Some casual fans become more invested and become true fans, but most go back to being oblivious after the big event is over.

Sweet Jones · Sep 8, 2014

CST80 said: ↑

And when the event is over the casuals walk away, ratings have dropped for golf after Tiger started sucking. They may understand it more, but the same thing applies to synchronized swimming and figure skating during the Olympics as well, everyone knows everything while its on, but when the "event" is over they won't actively seek it out, we'll go back to watching basketball and football, what we consider "real sports".
Some casual fans become more invested and become true fans, but most go back to being oblivious after the big event is over.
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Without a doubt, some sports do a better job of capitalizing than others. But, you still need 'events', not 'action'. Other than football (both NFL and college), almost every other sport in this country and on this planet is driven by star power.

The NBA ratings may have dropped when Jordan retired. But the impact of the Dream Team, who dominated in a string of absolutely non-competitive games, is STILL being felt today through the globalization of the game. Casuals weren't entertained by the layup line-level of competitiveness and 'action' from those games. But it was must-see TV because it was such a huge event.

Hell, just look at how most boxing fans view MMA. Most here, no matter how much our friends try to convince us otherwise, have limited interest in watching a great 'action' MMA fight. However, a lot more might be willing to go to a fight party to watch a match involving some of the big names that made it into the mainstream (GSP, Silva, etc.).

The point being, if you don't get a casual fans' eyes on your sport, there won't even be something for them to become oblivious to.

killerD · Sep 8, 2014

CST80 said: ↑

Sorry for the length.:-(

The people on this forum have a very insular view of boxing, we are fanatics, what we want is the best always fighting the best, and little known underrated talents getting pushed, and the overrated hypejobs getting exposed. But.... a lot of what we want may not be entertaining to general audiences, so it doesn't happen and the promoters don't care, because we are not their key demographic, the casual fans seeking entertainment are.

I see a lot of fans say "who cares what the casuals want", well without the casuals pouring money in, the sport wouldn't survive, the casual fans who know nothing are ironically the reason for the sport remaining successful. Most casual fans don't know anything about the sport except the few fighters that break through and become marquee names. Which means they're famous, and people will pay money for "important fights" based on name value and their level of stardom.

Without the cash generated by PPV buys and ratings brought in by HBO and Showtime viewers, the sport would atrophy and fade away, becoming irrelevant. HBO and Showtime are pay services, if they take money from their budget that they receive from subscribers and put on a subpar telecast that no one watches, they will go out of business, their main investors are the subscribers, without us they cease to exist. If we are not adequately entertained we drop the subscription and the money goes away and they can't create content anymore. Therefore they have to take into consideration what the general audiences want, which is to be "entertained", because the more viewers and PPV buys, the more money they make, and the more live boxing broadcasts they can produce. So the very livelihood of our favorite sport is predicated on the rise and fall of the viewership of the casual fan, who's sole reason for watching is to be entertained. Which is also why the latest trend of Haymon mismatches will only last for so long, even the casuals will start to catch on.

Unfortunately the casual fan knows very little, they know Mayweather, Pacquiao, Cotto, Canelo, maybe Hopkins and that's about it. They don't even know who Guerrero, Bradley, Rios, Maidana, Lara, Angulo, Martinez, Ortiz and now Algieri are, the promoters are very aware of this, they know hardcore fans will buy the PPVs in kneejerk fashion regardless, but they need a interesting story, new face, and rivalry that they can sell to everyone else and it doesn't matter who the opponent is, they are sold by the main attraction, our money isn't enough to keep the PPV business afloat, casuals are needed. Canelo-Lara appealed to the hardcore fans and it was a bust, casuals weren't interested.

Without the WWE like backstory the casual fan has little to no interest whatsoever, and won't buy. Why because they need an emotional investment in the fight, they need to care for the competitors, they want the soap opera element to make their blood flow and peak their interest, because they want a good guy/bad guy narrative, they know nothing about skills, styles, how to judge, refereeing, all of that doesn't mean **** to them, they just need the hook to snag and pull them in with, that entertainment value that makes them care, nothing more.

What is entertaining?..... personality.. back stories.. English speaker.. ability on the mic... good looks... knockouts...a fan friendly style,....if a fighter can provide a few of these qualities they can be highly marketable, unfortunately most fighters don't possess more than 1 or 2 of the them, so most fighters are hard to market. So when the promoters get someone who sells they shove them down our throats.
Sometimes they misjudge what appeals to the audience, while stupid some casual fans can spot a fraud, Broner most fans were smart enough to see him for what he was, a sad attempt to duplicate Mayweather and sell him as his heir apparent, which blew up in Golden Boy and Showtime's faces.

Casual fans definitely know what they don't like, which is Being Bored, what bores them?..... intricate boxing matches, they want to be wowed and they aren't going to get that with a trigonometry lesson in the ring, so if a fighter is too technical,... no one will care.
Why.....because they find it complicated, which causes them to lose focus, because when you have to think while being entertained it takes you out of the moment, making you lose track and become disinterested.
Therefore promoters don't waste their money or time trying to sell the unsellable, Lara and Rigondeaux will never be stars, because they are not willing to compromise their style to please the audience.

So the promoter makes fights to entertain the general audience, not us, because they want as many viewers as they can get, which makes them even more money.
We can rebel against this trend by not watching the product, causing their ratings to decrease, PPV buys to evaporate and most importantly lose their money, but that is the problem because we are addicted obsessives, and watch everything that comes on, therefore we are directly contributing to the continuation of the model that we find so problematic. We can't stop watching therefore they have no reason to amend their business model.

Promoters will continue to do what they want, how they want, because they know we will always be there for them in spite of our protestations, because we are fanatical, so we are taken for granted as being a constant, which means we don't have to be catered to, but the nonchalant casuals, they must always been entertained, if they aren't they walk out of the door, because they don't care as much as we do.
Its not fair to us the hardcore fans, but that's how most entertainment based businesses work. Hollywood doesn't care about geeks it only cares about the masses.
It sucks but there is really nothing we can do about it, because the hardcore fans voice is not as loud as the casuals.
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that's bull**** that's not how its supposed to be.I already have one foot out the door when it comes to being a boxing fan. Im just waiting for certain fighters careers to come to an end then I will be done watching this joke of a sport it wont be long before boxing becomes like the wwe.

CST80 · Sep 8, 2014

killerD said: ↑

that's bull**** that's not how its supposed to be.I already have one foot out the door when it comes to being a boxing fan. Im just waiting for certain fighters careers to come to an end then I will be done watching this joke of a sport it wont be long before boxing becomes like the wwe.
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I not advocating that this is a good thing, just telling like it is.... sadly, I've been watching for as long as I can remember of my 34 years, its never going to change.

killerD · Sep 8, 2014

CST80 said: ↑

I not advocating that this is a good thing, just telling like it is.... sadly, I've been watching for as long as I can remember of my 34 years, its never going to change.
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someone should step in and save boxing before it completely dies out there should be a commissioner or something like that.there's too many weight classes too many stupid belts get off ppv and fight on broadcast tv like they used to do.

CST80 · Sep 8, 2014

killerD said: ↑

someone should step in and save boxing before it completely dies out there should be a commissioner or something like that.there's too many weight classes too many stupid belts get off ppv and fight on broadcast tv like they used to do.
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:good I agree, but as long as there is money to be made, nothing will change:-( Haymon Arum etc look at the sport as a cash cow, and the boxers as meat to market, the prime cuts get sold for the most money, and the nasty bits get sold to bargain basement bingo halls.

killerD · Sep 8, 2014

CST80 said: ↑

:good I agree, but as long as there is money to be made, nothing will change:-( Haymon Arum etc look at the sport as a cash cow, and the boxers as meat to market, the prime cuts get sold for the most money, and the nasty bits get sold to bargain basement bingo halls.
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Im starting to believe al gaymon belongs in his very own category I know all promoters are greedy scum bags but this demon takes the cake the whole quillen fiasco is just the latest example.

takahiro-onaga · Sep 9, 2014

Boxing in Japan strong. Fight on free TV, fight on subscription TV and fight on demand. We have no greedy scum bag raping sport.

killerD · Sep 9, 2014

takahiro-onaga said: ↑

Boxing in Japan strong. Fight on free TV, fight on subscription TV and fight on demand. We have no greedy scum bag raping sport.
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true japan's go it right.

Boxing Truth · Sep 9, 2014

True CST80.

Boxing is indeed a business, and not a sport.

Thats why there have been FIGHT FIXING.

CST80 · Sep 9, 2014

Boxing Truth said: ↑

True CST80.

Boxing is indeed a business, and not a sport.

Thats why there have been FIGHT FIXING.
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No doubt, there has been, look at Scott-Wilder, but Hopkins is good at picking opponents who play to his strengths, I like Shumenov but he's not hard to outbox, especially for a master at making people miss and look bad like BHop.

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