Boxing New: Marciano versus Dempsey

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, May 2, 2011.


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  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    This week's Boxing News (British weekly boxing mag) takes a little look at this fantasy fight, just a page worth, but I thought i'd kick it up for discussion and our American cousins. The article comprises of a "for" argument for each man by a different writer, and a thumbnail of each man.


    JACK: Master of the quck KO and a ferocious hitter, who fought form a crouch and never stopped going forwards. He had aquick reflexes and threw fast punches, keeping his chin on his chest, though fought with both feet flat on the ground. He appeared ponderous but it was deceptive. On the inside he knew how to make his weight tell. Courageous.

    When Jack's reign was finally ended it was by a smart boxer, Gene Tunney. Gene out-boxed Dempsey with movement and science - the exact antithesis of what Marciano brought to the ring.

    The peak Dempsey was a vicious fighting machine and a ruthless finisher. He hit very hard with the left hook, and he would have landed plenty of those on Rocky, who came staright in with little lateral movement.

    When Rocky won the title he was dropped in the opening round by a left hook from Jersey Joe Walcott. marciano shrugged of punishement and kept going until an opponent lost his heart. Dempsey was hardly the sort to quit if the going got tough. And whil Marciano came a generation after Dempsey, he wasn't any bigger.

    And for all Rocky's unbeaten record, remember he was dropped in his last fight by a 43-year-old Archie Moore, and before becoming champion had on scraped past the good-but-not great Roland LaStraza on a split decision. How many would pick LaStraza to beat Dempsey?



    ROCKY: One of the hardest hitting HW's, Rocky was no boxer. At just five feet ten inches, he was short for a heavy and had thick arms, which he used to blast away left, right and centre. And his blows carried plenty of stoppage power. He was a wonderful competitor. He'd keep slogging forwards throwing bludgeoning hooks and looping rights. His blows had a cumulative affect. He threw his rights like catapults. Not just a hard puncher, Marciano was also a tough man and threw plenty of leather. Perfect record.

    A showdown between two of history's most romanticised heavyweight kings would undoubtedly be a brawl bubbling with punishment and pain. Neither warrior looked to out-box their rivals, both were blessed with inbuilt sseek-and-destroy mentalities acutely programmed for victory. It's a tough call but I believe Marciano's will to win would roar harder in the stifling heat of conflict and be to much for Jack to withstand.

    Marciano, though far from faultless, was a frighteningly resilient competitor who refused to lose and that would prove the difference against his slightly bigger adversary. Rocky could be dropped but he always rose. He could be outboxed but he always caught up. The same cannot be said of Dempsey. Jack, quicker and arguably more skilled, would take the fight to Rocky from the off. The superbly conditioned Marciano, decked early by Walcott and Moore, would more than likely taste the canvas early on. Encouraged by his fast start, Jack, who often loaded his weapons by his waist would not stop throwing. It is important to remember that although no shield master, Marciano was sturdier than we give it credit for. It is unreasonable to think he would get tagged by every one of Jack's clumps.

    Even so, Rocky would have no choice but to greet Dempsey's demonic waves head on and, after several rounds of hellish fighting, Rocky would sense his rival slowing down and the pendulum would swing Marciano, late round knockout.




    The poll that BW ran on it's website during the week had rocky a 7/10 favourite. I'll put up a poll too, see how an ESB one compares.


    On another note, ain't it grand that a weekly boxing publication is still running in this country? Great stuff.
     
    McGrain, May 2, 2011
    McGrain, May 2, 2011
    #1
  2. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I stopped reading where it said Dempsey fought with flat feet.
    Ridiculous statement.

    I'll try again later maybe.
     
    Unforgiven, May 2, 2011
    Unforgiven, May 2, 2011
    #2
  3. downgoesfrazier

    downgoesfrazier Guest

    dempsey would be dangerous early, probably he would drop marciano, but rocky would get up for sure and late rocky would destroy dempsey slowly
     
    downgoesfrazier, May 2, 2011
    downgoesfrazier, May 2, 2011
    #3
  4. DonBoxer

    DonBoxer The Lion! Full Member

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    I read this a few days ago, i think their poll is accurate to about the chance i give the fighters in that match up.
     
    DonBoxer, May 2, 2011
    DonBoxer, May 2, 2011
    #4
  5. DonBoxer

    DonBoxer The Lion! Full Member

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    BTW, fair play for typing it all out.
     
    DonBoxer, May 2, 2011
    DonBoxer, May 2, 2011
    #5
  6. D.T

    D.T Guest

    Dempsey from the Firpo/Willard fights would give Rocky a rough night. Rocky might have to suffer a KD, but would grind out a UD.
     
    D.T, May 2, 2011
    D.T, May 2, 2011
    #6
  7. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Rocky would time Dempsey, back him up, break him down to the body and head and knock him out. Dempsey's better speed may see Rocky take an early KD, but Rocky would get right back up and get back on top of him, firing back on all cylinders, making Jack think twice about his attacks. His right hand is going to find a home in Dempsey's mouth and the body assault will see Dempsey wilt before being destroyed
     
    PowerPuncher, May 2, 2011
    PowerPuncher, May 2, 2011
    #7
  8. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    M,Fine article you bring up from across the pond.I have only to add to this
    subject again,[and i think this is vital],that during Marciano's reign, this question would frequently be asked."Who would win a matchup between
    today's Rocky Marciano and Jack Dempsey,both in their primes "? Virtually
    every boxing writer who saw Dempsey in his prime fight picked Dempsey
    over Marciano.This statement is not hyperbole, but what the overwhelming
    opinion of experts who were around in the early 1950s truly believed. And
    I who saw Marciano ko Carmine Vingo in 1949,concur with their opinion.
    In those days, if it was a horse race, the odds would be 3/1 favoring Dempsey. Marciano,who I loved would be the perfect foil for Dempsey. Jack
    would get inside Marciano's swings ,and would nail the much slower Rocky
    Marciano,and stop Rocky early.Forget the Jack Dempsey of the 3 year layoff
    facing Tunney at the age of 32. We are talking about both men's primes...
    Dempsey with Tunney, was akin to Robinson with Ralph Tiger Jones, or Joe Louis against Marciano in 1951. Speed kills is the old refrain, and Dempsey
    had the speed to lick Rocky Marciano, and the toughness,I might add !
     
    burt bienstock, May 2, 2011
    burt bienstock, May 2, 2011
    #8
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Dempsey by tko in around 9rds.
     
    mcvey, May 2, 2011
    mcvey, May 2, 2011
    #9
  10. FastHands(beeb)

    FastHands(beeb) Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Burt, love what you write, and all respect to you. However, is it possible that the writers of the '50s, when comparing Dempsey and Marciano, suffered from the same affliction that many of us, fans and writers alike do, in that when comparing the current champs to the old timers, let nostalgia get in the way and say "they were better in the old days"? Is that a possibility?

    Fow what it's worth, I voted from Marciano in this one, but both are among my favourites. I may be wrong, but I suspect that over the long haul, Marciano would have coped with Dempsey's best shots better than Jack may have coped with The Rock's best.

    I would have paid big money to see this one though!
     
    FastHands(beeb), May 2, 2011
    FastHands(beeb), May 2, 2011
    #10
  11. SonnyListonsJab

    SonnyListonsJab Active Member Full Member

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    Horrible Logic.

    First

    A. Archie Moore was 38, not 43. I noticed they didn't include that Jess Willard was 37 years old coming off a 3 year layoff when he fought Dempsey.

    B. Archie Moore, even at 38, was arguably better than anyone Dempsey fought.

    C. They mention the first Lastarza fight, but neglect the fact Dempsey was knocked out in 1 round by a 38 year old Fireman Flynn at that same stage in his career. In his prime, he also lost to a chubby journeyman named Willie Meehan. How many would pick Flynn and Meehan to beat Marciano?
     
    SonnyListonsJab, May 2, 2011
    SonnyListonsJab, May 2, 2011
    #11
  12. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    FH, good question you pose. But remember , these opinions i cite were from hard bitten writers of the time. And they were as objective as they could be.
    REMEMBER, these same writers who saw a prime Dempsey fight ,Picked Ray Robinson,and Willie Pep, and Joe Louis,and Ike Williams,as better than the
    "oldtimers" of their divisions. Did they somehow suffer from "selective" nostalgia "? No, I think not...These writers, made their living by facts not
    emotions as some fans are wont to do.
    No fighter that ever lived could take a prime Jack Dempsey onslaught by
    trying to outlast him.Couldn't be done. A murderous fast punching larger edition of a later Roberto Duran. If Dempsey ,before Hollywood beckoned,
    was to lose, it would be by a defensive whiz, not an in your face, much
    slower Marciano. Cheers.
     
    burt bienstock, May 2, 2011
    burt bienstock, May 2, 2011
    #12
  13. junior-soprano

    junior-soprano Active Member Full Member

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    we agree again mr. bienstock.. is it becoming a habit ??
    though i don't have so much boxing knowledge as some others on this site.
    i think dempsey would indeed beat marciano.
     
    junior-soprano, May 2, 2011
    junior-soprano, May 2, 2011
    #13
  14. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I prefer Dempsey and think he was technically a better fighter than Marciano in many ways.

    But I wouldn't pick him to beat Marciano necessarily. It's hard to pick against a murderous puncher who never lost and was barely ever hurt.
     
    Unforgiven, May 2, 2011
    Unforgiven, May 2, 2011
    #14
  15. SonnyListonsJab

    SonnyListonsJab Active Member Full Member

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    You don't think much of Marciano do you? I have no problem with you picking Dempsey, but picking Max Baer to defeat Marciano is laughable :lol:
     
    SonnyListonsJab, May 2, 2011
    SonnyListonsJab, May 2, 2011
    #15
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