Boxing New: Marciano versus Dempsey

i think highly of him but he ain't superman.. and i think he gets a bit overrated sometimes..
and if you read my answer correctly then you must have red that i slightly and just slightly favor baer..
all respect for marciano. but i have my opinion and you have yours

 

Dempsey. Better speed, beat big men in head to head firefights.

 

Neither was Max Baer. In fact, Baer was a clown who lost to B level fighters.

Still great enough to beat Max Baer

I just don't understand your opinion of Baer having even remotely a good chance to beat Marciano. Rocky Marciano was an all time great fighter, Max Baer was not. I have big doubts whether Baer could have beaten Marciano's top opposition, let alone a relentless non stop powerful granite chin swarmer like Marciano.

As for Marciano-Dempsey, I see it as a 50-50 type fight. Would be an absolute war.

Dempsey beat big lugs who couldn't fight. At least Marciano beat a big man who knew how to jab and had good skills in joe louis.

 

Yes, nobody knew how to jab before 1930.

Joe Louis was never a big man, even at a spare tire fighting weight when he took on Marciano.

 

And was 37 years old having his last fight.

 

It's a great fight ... I go back and forth between the two ...

 

No one before 1930 knew how to jab ? Hmmm,ya ever hear of Benny Leonard, Gene Tunney etc. They even knew how to talk !
P.S. This "modern" obsession with weight is silly. Joe Louis at 200 pounds was a very powerful man.Once in a clinch with Carnera,Louis showed his strength by shoving back the 250 lb preem a few feet. Louis was powerful ! !
And in his prime Louis carried his strength and power for 15 rounds IF necessary. In the course of human evolution ,70 years is a drop in the bucket
in man.Willard, Wills, Abe Simon, Carnera, Buddy Baer,etc were just as big as today's behemoth's, size-wise for sure...

 

Spare tire?

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I see a chizzled in good shape 37 year old man who grew naturally with age.

Louis had a six pack. The only six pack Luis Firpo had was Cerveza Quilmes the night before. Talk about spare tire

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Louis had a far better jab than any big man dempsey fought. He also had far better skills and fundamentals. 37 year old Louis would have killed 37 year old Willard.

6'2 214lb. About the same weight as Fulton, Firpo, and Morris when they fought Dempsey.

 

No big man above 210lb prior to 1930 from who've Ive seen on film or read about had a fluid, powerful, sniper like left jab like Joe Louis. Louis busted up Charles and Marciano's faces into something horrible at age 36-37 years old. Tunney had a great jab, and look what he did to Jack Dempsey with it. You think Willard, Firpo, Morris, Fulton could jab like Joe Louis even at 37? Your dreaming.

 

Bang on the button Unforgiven - clearly these writers know absolutely nothing in reality - prime Dempsey never fought flat footed - he was renowned for his fleetness of foot and fighting on his toes - it really annoys me that these guys are allowed to spew such bilge - I've always wanted to get into boxing journalism and I damn sure know much more than those cretins ever have - they shouldn't be allowed to write things which are blatantly untrue - does Boxing News get historians to proof read things before they put them in print?? I know it was a minor detail but still its ridiculous - what they going to print next?? Ali's handspeed was nothing to write home about??

 

Being sarcastic, Burt.

 

I find myself favoring Rocky -- ever so slightly and with all possible trepidation.atsch

Mr Beinstock, if Dempsey won, that's just how he'd do it, shoveling his punches in inside of Marciano's blows.:good

 

Tough battle between the 2 fighters, Dempsey would start quick and may force Rocky to start quick. This chemistry would cause some serious combustion just like if it was Joe Louis against either one...I think Dempsey dangerous early may put Marciano down and for longer than a 2 count but Marciano was strong and tough and proved to have late power.

I think with Dempsey ahead after the 7th rd. Marciano starts to build momentum and get real strong in the championship rds...Dempsey goes down for the battle of attrition takes its toll and Marciano getting closer and stronger of the 2 but both pretty banged up....I see a late stop by Marciano or a UD based on a strong finish but a hard fight for both.

 

Saying those guys didn't jab like Joe Louis is fair enough - BUT THEN JOE LOUIS HAD ARGUABLY THE GREATEST JAB OF THEM ALL?? I think Burt was just trying to put you right on the fact that fighters certainly did use the jab prior to 1930 - and there were some pretty great jabbers prior to 1930

check it

two great jabbers here

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hrAs0Tyo5g[/ame]

another 2 great jabbers here

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs45EQEHmDs[/ame]

again these two did everything off the jab

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwz3HtxPv7o[/ame]

as far as jabbing here Jack Sharkey - a 1920's fighter really - is certainly jabbing freely with Joe Louis (arguably the greatest jabber in heavyweight history)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJaf8Fg_DCY[/ame]

 

:good
Yeah, it's a minor detail but it's not we're talking about grey areas.

To bother to note that he's fought flat-footed is actually to state the opposite to the truth.
He's one of the less flat-footed of heavyweight fighters, esp. as far as punchers go.
Not that there's anything wrong with flat-footed fighters - it just wasn't Dempsey's style.

I don't expect amazing analysis or insightful expertise from every boxing writer - I mean, I don't expect them to match ESB geekdom standards - but it would be nice to think he's studied even a few youtube clips before typing, and with open eyes.