breaking down this heavyweight era and others: Why today stinks!!

Musto was a "soft touch" Louis took on just a few weeks after beating Simon. He certainly lost in bunches but he did manage a few noteworthy wins, including a decision over the upstart Jimmy Bivins, which looks great on paper but in reality, Bivins was only in his second year as a pro and most likely not used to mixing it up with heavyweights yet.

I don't believe Musto was ever regarded as a contender, he was really just a tougher than average journeyman. Louis could do worse for a short notice opponent a few weeks removed from a defense against a top contender.

Wlad would certainly get crucified for taking such a fight, but that's only because he only fights a few times a year. There just isn't a need for a HW Champion to defend the belt monthly anymore. It would be pointless.

 

-I'm not wrong, nothing you said contradicted me. He was a journeyman who picked up a couple noteworthy wins, and yes, after the Louis fight he squeezed into the top 10 after upsetting Bivins but didn't stay long.

-Lets not big up Musto. Louis has many underrated opponents that get unfairly written off as a bums but were actually serious contenders like Galento and Simon, but Musto is not one.

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-It depends if your definition of "contender" is losing most of your fights but briefly cracking the top 10 with one really good win, than he could be considered as such.

 

Well done on the trolling, good sir. I knew you were committed to getting this thing a ton of views, but with this masterpiece, you've outdone yourself.

Not only have you made the claim that Wlad would get more praise for fighting a 5'7 "heavyweight" who couldn't punch and barely had a .500 record just because he'd fight everybody. Nope, it was time to kick it up a notch. You're also using that fighter's miraculous top 10 ranking as proof of how good that era was instead of asking the common question of "what heavyweight division could possibly be terrible enough for this guy to rank top 10 in?".

But wait, there's more! Said journeyman's signature win was against a light heavyweight in Bivins. What better example to use in your argument that heavyweight contenders don't fight frequently enough than one where the other guy involved wasn't a heavyweight? All the while ragging on Wlad's win over a former cruiserweight in Mormeck!

Brilliant. :happy

 

a lot of hws in the 80s/early 90s had serious drug/alcohol problems, aside from a few fighters it was a disgraceful period. most of them couldn't put down the crack pipe or bottle.

 

One troll leaves, another troll enters. This thread has been a revolving door of trolls who all seem angry that there boys the Klits, fought in a era that all boxing experts acknowledge is the worst ever. The Klitards continually try to change history.

 

Even if you gave Musto respectable heavyweight dimensions, it would still be a laughing stock kind of a fight if he fought Wlad, and deep down, you know it. Not only did Tony not beat a top 10 contender to earn that title shot, he was getting beat routinely by guys way lower on the ladder. Good on him for getting the shot, but let's not pretend Wlad would get more props for fighting that kind of defense today than against his current defenses.

Let's emphasize this one more time: Musto never beat a top 10 contender before he got his title shot. You know, the same metric you're using to rag on today's fighter.

When he did finally beat a "name" fighter that you seem to be basing this all on, Jimmy Bivins, guess what? Bivins was a light heavyweight who wasn't ranked at heavyweight, either! Jimmy went on to be ranked, but fought him right in the middle of a slump that saw him lose 3 of 4.

So, get your terms right. Musto didn't beat heavyweight contenders by your definition. He beat heavyweight contender. Savold (who promptly avenged the loss), and that win took place after he got his title shot. Not before.

Good grief man, if you're going to keep this thread rolling, you're going to need to troll better than this. If I were you, I'd drop the Musto card immediately and change tactics.

 

Musto had wins over Lem Franklin (who was coming off wins over Simon and Savold) and Johnny Risko (rated pretty highly at points throughout the 30's) before he fought Louis, He also held Turkey Thompson (rated fairly high in the Top 10) in the fight that followed Louis. So, while he wasn't outstanding, he proved he could compete on the fringe contender level...and was probably deserving of the term himself.

As far as getting a title shot, it occurred all of two weeks after Louis had faced Abe Simon, and only six weeks before he fought Buddy Baer. It was a stay busy fight against a tough, durable guy (stopped once, on cuts, before going into the Louis fight) who had proved he could spring an upset from time to time. Traditionally, observers have cut champs some slack for taking fights like these-and if Wlad were to maintain that type of pace and fight someone like this between two more highly ranked guys, I have a feeling he'd receive some slack as well.

 

-He's a journyman who briefly held a bottom top 10 RING ranking in a division that had just been cleaned out. If you think that makes him into a "contender" in the traditional sense of the term, go for it.

-At the time, Louis selected him as an opponent I would have to say no. A former CW Champion and two undefeated prospects are more attractive options. Now if Musco was actually coming off the draw with Turkey and the win over Bivins, he would look better. But the unranked Musco who had just lost 4 of his last 6 against middling competion and lacked any big wins? No. Only if Wlad was fighting the Brown Bomber's grueling schedule, and he was sandwhiched inbetween two tough top 5 opponents in a month's time.

-Drew lays out it pretty good. He was a stay busy opponent arguably on the fringe level, selected to give Louis some rounds inbetween two tough fights.

 

-I would compromise with "fringe contender", at least in that brief time. I wouldn't give him too much credit for Risko though, considering it was Risko's last fight at the end of a grueling career and he had not been relevant in some time. Franklin had what would turn out to be good wins but he wasn't RING top 10 yet. So "Rock" is correct in that regard.


-I agree with the second paragraph and said as much myself earlier in the thread.

 

-I guess if you keep writing this enough, you will eventually believe it.

 

It's beyond stupid that he can't answer such a simple question.

He can only tell us that Holyfield is not his 3rd best win, yet offers no alternatives.

 

-You never poved this. The only comparision was done by me between Wlad and Tyson. I again stress the results were vastly different from yours, never mind you got two important rankings wrong and never bothered to correct them. Your two point difference shrunk to less than a point. Wlad gained 4 fights and Tyson even gained the more accurate high rankings for his opponents.

-How many fighters did I leave out? Was it not just one and I corrected it?

-Musto was brought into the discussion by someone else as a Joe Louis opponent that was ranked in the RING top 10 at some point in his career. That's why we were discussing him. Quit taking credit for someone else's work. Your poved nothing, you just repeated the reason he was brought into the discussion. We know he held a ranking at some point, and were criticizing the worth of that.

 

Time for a real wager. Of these men, who you think BEAT the most RING HW top 10 prior to their fights with Tyson and Wlad using your method (Year of Fight Annual Rating).

Spinks
Berbick
Williams
Thomas
Smith
Ruddock

Haye
Byrd II
Chambers
Povetkin
Chageav
Ibragimov

If Wlad's scalps total more victories as defined above I win. If Tyson's oppnents have more, you win. Loser leaves town and never comes back. Agree? To turn this bet down, would show a lack of faith in your findings and method, and in theory be a victory for me. I'm open to discussion if you don't like these scalps. I tried to pick the best ones.

 

What posts could you possibly link to?

The one that lists Dokes for Ruddock? The one where I compared Wlad and Tyson? The first post that mentioned Musco me and Aqua were responding to?

 

I don't have time to dick around anymore, your next post will be "yes" or "no."