Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by roughdiamond, May 4, 2019.
I've seen this a few times, I think Joe would've been very dominant if the landscape was different, I think he lost his mojo in the FotC
Jimmy Young - Early 1975 to late 1977 (though he did have a nice 1981)
Pinklon Thomas - Mid 1982 to mid 1985. Considered the future star of the division for a while.
According to his fans he was washed up at 29.
What they did was fall down about 2 rungs off the ladder once out of that timeframe when they were sharp. They went from A fighters to C fighters as fast as anyone. No stop at level B. Looked like completely different fighters & you could almost think a name change was necessary. I still laugh at Jimmy pulling down the trunks of Dokes to stop the assault.
Another guy like that was Zamora. Just think of the damage that the great Carlos Zarate----now there's a name seldom mentioned---did to his career.
Beat me too it.
Although he died young he was beating top men for 10 years or so.
This has been my theory as well. I remember Bowe saying that for him the actual winning of the heavyweight championship was his whole raison d'etre for being a boxer, that once he won it he started fighting at least partly just for other people. I get the same feeling for Joe and the FOTC. He put everything on it, beat probably the greatest heavyweight champion (who, despite all the detractors, was under 30 and thus still in his prime). And that was it. He apparently felt there weren't anymore hoops he had to jump through...and I think he was right. I believe had Joe retired after the first Ali he would probably have been considered top 5 ATG by most pundits.
I should also mention that Joe beat plenty of quality fighters in the 60s and was pretty damn great then in my estimation. Watch those old fights and prepare to be impressed...Frazier had a good chance against Ali even earlier than the FOTC, and that's saying one helluva lot imo.
However, back to the OT, perhaps the best example is Tyson. Never a more ferocious flame, apparently part-fueled by drugs but nonetheless a wonder.
I have a possibly debatable name: Michael Dokes.
Though the first Weaver fight was stopped a few flush shots short of acceptable, Dokes looked terrific imo, and had me excited the day it happened. At the time it looked like Dokes might have ended up being the eventual successor to Holmes, and even capable of giving the great man a damn good fight (even at that still-prime-time Holmes point in time). I felt his potential was limitless: really fast hands, good foot movement and generalship, a left hook that tended to sneak in at very opportune times and was without question a damaging punch when he set himself properly to throw it.
All that fell apart directly afterward, and just seemed to get worse as time went on.
People tell me they think that the draw with Weaver was more indicative of Dokes' powers and I just don't see that in their first fight. I saw a marvel of whirlwind hand speed and killer instinct that impresses me even when I see it today. It was the most exciting thing (besides Holmes' at the time indomitable reign) in the heavyweights at the time imo. Unquestionably an early stoppage, and just as unquestionably an impressive display by Michael imo.
Tyronne Everett didn't get much time to show the world what he could do. Those who saw him remember him though.
David Reid for a while got a push to be a household name.
Wow, its like he made a deal with the devil.
Davey Moore was shot by the time he died He was derailed by a lack of defense and a highly motivated Duran.
Does Buster Douglas count ?
Leon Spinks went from HW champ to nothing.
Tyrell Biggs went from Olympic Champ and unbeaten pro to becoming an opponent in just one defeat
Barry Mcguigans stay at the top was much publicised and then very brief
I dont agree with Tyson.
Reigning for 3 and a half years and beating a division is not brief. He was very active in that time.
If it hadnt been for his comeback maybe we could include everyone's favourite heavyweight Big Bad George ?
Lloyd Hoeneygan ?
Don Curry ?
Liston ( as champ ?)
Good calls on pretty much all, IMO.
Regarding Tyson and Liston, both had very short reigns - about 19 months each - as champ. However, both operated at close to the top of the division for years. Tyson, from mid-86 to 2002. Liston, from early 1959 to his death in late 1970. Both fighters had years close to the top, but only short periods at the very very top.