British people, explain to me how big of a star Frank Bruno was

He was what I suppose you'd call a cross over star.

He was a TV celebrity and especially well known for appearing in pantomimes at XMas.

He and Henry Cooper were better known to the non boxing public than Lennox Lewis, at least until right towards the end of Lennox's career.

The UK have had some world class HWs and world champions since Bruno arrived on the world scene, but not so much before. Bruno got to a level that gave him exposure and then he was well marketed.

Looking like an adonis, an infectious and distinctive laugh, being a seemingly gentle giant out of the ring and his chemistry with the British commentator Harry Carpenter, all meant the British public took to him.

Whilst his profile outstripped his talent and achievements, conversely being a nearly man meant he was also unfairly a figure of fun in many quarters. A bit like Tim Henman in tennis, I always thought that unfair. 2 x guys amongst the 10 best in the world in their respective disciplines (specifically at HW, in Frank's case) at their peak, but not quite good enough to ever become THE best, still meant both were very, very good. I know if I was the, for example, 6th best in the world at something, I'd be very proud of that. Yet both were relentlessly figures of fun in comedy quiz and chat shows and some parts of the media.

 

Frank was and is the most well known and loved British boxer ever!

He was a good fighter was frank, he may not have been the best but he had charisma and character that always left you with a smile and you just couldn't help liking him and want him to do well.

 

Summed up brilliantly Greg

 

He was a star and public name, everyone knew him.
His fights that ended in losses were heart breakers.
AJ Isn't really in the same boat tbh.

 

Easy going and didn't take himself to seriously .British people like that sort of thing. Hard hitting which the punters also like

 

Hi Greg.
As @Noel857 has already said a brilliant post and breakdown of Bruno as a boxer and a man, or maybe man/child, there was always something about Bruno that evoked pathos and pity, he was a peter pan figure in some ways, he didn't seem to grow up, in almost all of his interviews you held your breath, and looked through your fingers, whether it was bodily functions, or some such, you just knew he would not come out looking good in a sort of sad way, in some ways he reminded me of Lennie in " of mice and men " immensely strong, not even knowing his own strength, but coupled with kindness and purity, the fight business was too mendacious for his like, he was better suited working with less scrupulous persons, as a fighter he struck me as a non learner, he appeared to me the same fighter at the outset, as the same fighter at the climax of his career, I saw pretty much no improvement, long jab, then straight right, no disenable body punching, no upper body movement, no feints, he was as near as to a robot as you could get as a boxer, for all that I loved him, his honesty, integrity, and all his failings, he epitomized the british culture, keep all your hard nosed winners, we love a sincere loser ,we always have, lest the above seems without empathy, it isn't meant to, we all know Frank's struggles with mental health, and he has coped with dignity and solitude, he is and forever will be, ingrained in british boxing history, and so he should.
stay safe Greg, chat soon buddy.

 

Hi Mike,

Thank you. That's a mighty fine breakdown yourself.

I agree Bruno was character naive and vulnerable to the murky world of elite HW boxing.

He was stiff and robotic as you say.

His stance was often very side on, maximising his already long reach, meaning he had a long, ramrod jab, that he could throw short, from an already partially extended arm, which compensated for his relative slowness and yet, despite being shortened, was still powerful.

The above two paragraphs meant he was Cannon fodder for a short armed, fast fighter who got inside those massive long arms and into his own punching range, whilst he was a stylistic nightmare for a long range, jab and move, outboxer. Which partially explains why he did so much better vs Lewis and Witherspoon than he did Tyson.

Thanks Mike, you too.

P.s. love the mention of mice n men, brilliant play

 

And here I was, thinking that Joe Bugner was Britain’s most loved fighter and that it was one of Britain’s darkest days when Frank beat Joe. I need to do some more research.

 

Great point Greg and I totally agree. While we have a reputation for 'loving a loser', equally there's the other side that writes them off when they fail and the comparison with Frank and Tim is bang on. I think the sport fans were just so desperate for a British heavyweight champ and Wimbledon champ and pinned their hopes on these two and once they failed, they'd quickly lampoon them (despite when they did fail it was to the likes of Lewis/Tyson, Sampras/Goran).

This is what I called Piers Morgan syndrome- those with the mentality that being the best cricketer in your local village is better than finishing 8th in the Olympic 100 metres final.

 

Yes, I remember the relentless micky taking on shows like "They think it's all over" of both Tim & Frank.

Whilst I understand it was all in the name of "entertainment", I always thought there was a flaw in the logic. The only reason both had the micky taken out of them, on a national scale, for "being rubbish", was because unlike everyone else in the UK at the time, they were good enough to compete at the very highest level (e.g. multiple Grand Slam semi finals & HW world title fights, respectively) and had a profile commensurate with competing at that level. Essentially, they were ridiculed for being the best in our country & somewhere amongst the 10 best in the world, at that time, at what they did, but not quite the best in the world.

 

The UK media normally are critical of sports folk unless they are winning, they are fair weather supporters only, whereas with Frank Bruno they were a helluva lot less so critical with Big Frank.

I do wonder whether Brunos close association with Harry Carpenter the well respected BBC boxing commentator might have made Bruno less of a target for the media, as they had a real rapport with each other and of course created one of the best know phrases of that time with Bruno saying at each post fight interview with Carpenter "know what I mean, 'Arry?", the media saying anything much critical of Bruno would have likely not been well received, not with Mr Carpenter in his corner.

Bruno as others state was self deprecating, presented as a jovial giant, hell he even dressed up as Juliet in a Romeo and Juliet comedy sketch on national TV for charity.

The fact was Bruno only ever lost as a professional when in world title bouts, so from a country whose last British born World Heavyweight champion was Bob Fitzsimmons, he was not unexpectedly a big star of our sceptred isle.

A non boxing aside, I liked Harry Carpenters unintentional double entendre commentating at the end of the Oxford vs Cambridge University Boat Race, upon which he commented "Ah, what a happy gesture, the wife of the Cambridge president is kissing the cox of the Oxford crew."

 

Not a Brit myself but my read on Bruno's popularity is that he was by some distance their most beloved "man of the people"/underdog figure in boxing since Henry Cooper. (but I'm of course open to being corrected on that front by those who fly the Union Jack)

And would remain so until maybe Hatton?

 

By the time Bruno fought Bugner, Joe was known as “Aussie” Joe, as he had moved to Australia. He was well past his best and overweight, when lured back for Bruno.
He was originally from Hungary. He never attained Bruno’s popularity, with his safety first style.
Having the “audacity” to outpoint the “national treasure” known as Henry Cooper, distanced him from the popularity stakes, probably for good.
Ironically Harry Carpenter’s disbelief at Cooper’s defeat, expressed in his tv commentary, didn’t help. Carp’ was a great chum of Coop’s, only to be replaced by Bruno, years later. Frank in reality took up Cooper’s baton in his double act with Harry.