Brock Lesnar vs Dan Severn

I said it the other week and got mauled by a shitload of WWE fans. Nutters.

 

Speaking of WWE, I just found this

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umaajWnKCLE[/ame]

 

The veterans are still competitive because they've learned a lot over the past few years. Early Randy didn't have the knowledge that modern Randy does. MMA's learning curve seems to go on for a while; there's so much to learn that older guys can compensate to some degree for their declining athleticism.

 

I don't think it's just that though. Randy's pedigree was far superior than these 'evolved' modern athletes.

 

In fairness, Coleman and Kerr also faced fighters who didn't have modern fighters' skill or understanding of the game they'd entered -- especially in some of the earlier UFCs. This isn't modern supremacism, but simple fact. Moti Horenstein, an early Gary Goodridge (good fighter, but limited), Paul Varelans and Branko Cikatic come to mind.

 

Not just that, granted. But it's still a factor that we should consider.

 

Agreed but i wasn't using either man as an example of exemplary striking. But more to illustrate their toughness and very effective GnP from in the guard.

And i never though much of Varelans. He got brutalised by Igor and Kerr. That kid was too tough for his own good and paid a heavy price against Kerr.

 

Talking about old V new fighters ability to take and give GNP is pointless as the fights would be stopped now.

 

scurla bro old mma fighters in the heavyweight division would get k.o'ed by the 2012 overeem, or JDS. The old school LHW would get ktfo by Jon Jones. The old school WW would get Layed and prayed on by GSP, so I agree with EL BULLY comparing old fighters to new improved 21st century fighters is like comparing a fight between larry merchant vs young floyd mayweather jr

 

Lesnar 2011 seemed weaker than the pre-surgery Lesnar so I voted considering both fighters in their prime. I have to go with Lesnar because Severn never seemed to be able to handle other wrestlers.

 

Brock didnt look great against wrestlers either tbf. The difference in this fight would be Dan's Greco and subs or Brock's right hand

 

a lot of ppl here like dan severn more than brock. if that's what the polls really show.

lets be honest with are selves . Brock hit harder was bigger and beat guys the likes of Herring Couture and frank Mir. all those guys where better in my view than dan severn. Brock would totally run through severn and not even a close .

 

I think a lot of people have forgotten what type of fighter Severn was. At least in the UFC, as I haven't really seen much of him since he left. I remember searching for some video of his fights since leaving the UFC, and finding some, but I was drunk and don't remember it so well.

Anyway, Seven's record is misleading. Severn was not a submission expert. Severn wasn't even a great finisher. Remember him holding onto Abbott from behind for a 1/2 hour? Severn's early submissions are mostly against undersized opponents with limited grappling skills. Severn was not a great finisher.

Do I think Severn stands a chance against Lesnar? Of course. I keep changing my mind on a winner almost every time I focus my attention on it. Severn had good size, good wrestling, and good conditioning. It wouldn't surprise me to see Severn put Lesnar against the cage and wear him down to a dominate decision, or late stoppage due largely to fatigue.

There are other things to consider. I've never seen Severn battle a wrestler Lesnar's size. Coleman outclassed Severn in their encounter, but neither Severn or Lesnar are world class wrestlers. Severn is closer than Brock, but it's not like Severn was capable of wrestling his way onto an Olympic team. The best he could do was become an alternate. That is no small feat, but the gap between Coleman and Severn was quite apparent in their encounter.

You also have to look at Severn's stand-up, which was not good at all. Lesnar would be better here. Severn doesn't have the power to scare Lesnar, nor did he have Lesnar's speed.

As I'm typing this, I'm leaning toward a Severn decision. Mind you, I picked Lesnar earlier in the same thread. It's just that Severn can't give Brock any opening to land something big standing, and he definitely can't afford to let Lesnar put him on his back. There are few heavyweights that have the defense from their backs to withstand Lesnar's onslaught, and Severn isn't one of them.

 

His pedigree partly looks better because he crossed over later in life. Modern fighters often start earlier. While you can fault the "Jack of all trades, master of none" mentality of modern MMA, I think it's a step in the right direction. At some point, MMA needs to specifically train MMA fighters rather than wrestlers, kickboxers, or judoka who've crossed over. They can still specialize in certain areas (takedowns, groundwork, striking, whatever), but they need to train for an MMA environment earlier.

Also, I just googled "MMA top 10 heavyweights" and clicked on the first page. Though I'm sure many would quibble about the specific rankings, it gives a good flavor of modern fighters' qualifications:


Junior Dos Santos - not a really great background in other combat sports
Overeem - K-1 champion
Velasquez - decent wrestling career
Mir - Won NAGA, for what it's worth
Werdum - Several ADCC championships, among others
Cormier - Olympic level wrestling
Brock Lesnar - Already covered throughout this thread.
Shane Carwin - decent wrestling career
Josh Barnett - Won a rather large no-gi BJJ tournament in '09, though not ADCC
Silva - not a really great background in other combat sports


So that's one Olympic-caliber wrestler, one ADCC champion, and one K-1 champion in the current top 10. Not too shabby.

 

Brock by KO round 1 or early 2nd.