Forget elite fighters, this cat got took to school by the gate keeper version of Tony Tubbs that was getting laid out by Lionel Butler on Tuesday Night Fights. [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvbHZurm0Ag[/url] This McCall meltdown on ESPN was hardly flattering either. He was getting rocked in the first round by blocked and missed punches. Possibly foreshadowing Tyson's knockout with a missed punch. [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpKYLQpdW6E[/url]
Seamus...where have u got this one from ? Is this a wind up ? No doubt he went down against Tyson without being hit...further promoting the 'Tyson is still a monster' myth. Even more shameful given how beatable Tyson was at that point. Beat Tucker..but Tony was well past his best by then...Not sure what rates him above ordinary.
I saw both of those fights live and can see your point. But let's not forget that "gatekeeper" version of Tubbs also gave Riddick Bowe a fair amount of problems and continued to linger around the division for quite a bit longer after losing to Butler. He was winning for most of the McCall fight before gassing out against one of the most durable heavy's of all time.
-Exactly. The point is that Seldon didn't just lose to elite fighters. He lost to his next best tier of opponents in an aging gate keeper and an undercard trial horse as well. -Nah, He would get KOed in 1 again not even a year after Seldon. Tubbs' last hurrah was Bowe, unless you count the Minto win in his comeback. -That's a sugar coated spin. McCall was known far more for having "sparing partner syndrome" than durability at this time. He piled up some points with his jab but he was getting knocked around and hurt throughout the fight, and nearly went down in the 6th. I will add Seldon did wobble McCall in the 5th. The 9th round meltdown was no doubt fatigue, he wasn't even punched in the last two knockdowns.
- I'm not trying to make a case for Seldon being anything special as I know as well as anyone from following his career from his first couple of fights that he was very average.. But you're also oversimplifying a lot of issues. The version of Tony Tubbs that beat Seldon was in better shape and fighting more actively than the one who lost to Tyson in 1988. Watching the Bowe fight confirms this in my mind. Sure its easier to dismiss him as being worse merely because he was older, but I don't' think that's the reality. Oliver McCall was nobody at the time, but he was already beginning to give top raters problems and had been a sparring partner for tyson for years, and would eventually score a huge upset over Lewis. -yes while being in between winning streaks against semi-decent opposition, then finishing his career going 13-5 in his last 18 fights to the near age of 50. Not claiming he was prime against Bruce, but he was far from finished. - It was McCall's game to be rather non-aggressive while figuring his opponent out and luring them into deep water. Manny Steward adjusted some of that for the Lewis fight, but basically it was how he was his whole career. That doesn't change the fact that he was a formidable opponent when Seldon fought him or that Bruce doesn't deserve credit for having a good start against him.
-Why the emphasis on the Bowe fight almost 1.5 years previously? The first round Butler blowout was just two months prior to the Seldon meeting, he was being set up as any easy kill, but Seldon got dropped and embarrassed instead. Tubbs would go on to suffer another KO loss to this tomato can just 11 months after handling Seldon. So Seldon joins the likes of Jesse Ferguson, and some cans I never heard of, as Tubb's 10 round decision victories from 92-93. [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCTZhgepvfk[/url] Either way, Tubbs was never elite. -I can't recall the Norris fight, but McCall's fights with Douglas and Tucker were flat out stinkers. McCall wasn't trying to do dick in deep water. That strategy seemed to only work against a guy was collapsing without getting punched. McCall was so lazy in the Tucker fight that in the 9th the ref asked him "You know you are fighting for a title." McCall said "What title?"
Put Joe Frazier's heart in Bruce Seldon's body and you'd have a frightening specimen. I can't get over the right hand from Tyson that sailed over his head and knocked him out. That was disgraceful.
Let's get one thing straight. Tony TNT Tubbs is in the upper pantheon of great heavyweights. The most talented fighter of any division I have seen in the past 50 years.
Tubbs was still fighting actively and beating prospects and upper tier journeyman both before and after the Seldon fight. Again I'm not trying to elevate either man's stock.. Only point out that you're diminishing him to a gatekeeper in an effort to make Seldon's defeat to him worse than it really is.. BTW, Lionel Butler was tough too, and McCall was no pushover. He's fifty years old practically today and still fighting and has a win over Lennox Lewis. He was never truly stopped in 72 fights.
No, I'm calling him what he is He was no longer a contender at this stage of his career seriously pursuing a title. He was playing gate keeper to the prospects. And specifically in this case, he was 35 years old and coming off the worst defeat of his career. Losing to him in the matter that he did, is very bad for Seldon, and set him back by three years. I don't have to dress it up. ANd the only reason I bring it up is because somebody claimed, Seldon only lose to the elite. He certainly did not. yeah, I've heard that.
... and how did Seldon do against Bowe? Seldon was on his ass against Tubbs too, if I remember rightly.
Watch the second replay around 8:10 and you`ll see the punch grazed off the back of the head, behind the ear area. The punch doesn`t look like much at all but believe me even grazing shots to that area can take away you`re balance and thats what I think happened.