Bruns broke Johnson's ribs and was ill when they meet? This book says so

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Sep 28, 2011.


  1. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    It ultimately all turns upon production of a primary source.
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    :yep
     
  4. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I was able to pull the book up. It is a preview and has selected pages, not all. It is possible to gleam the main thesis. The writer maintains Burns was a good fighter who was unfairly put down BECAUSE he was willing to break the colour line. Here is a key quote:

    "Burns was one of the most influential athletes of the past hundred years--the man who broke the infamous "colour line" in big-time sports and the father of the mega-money athletes we know today. Yet he's been discarded by history, the victim of a cruel and unfair smear campaign that has gone unchallenged for a century."

    On the Johnson-Burns fight, the writer maintains Johnson's efforts to build himself up at Burns' expense backfired:

    "Johnson didn't want people to know it had been a tough battle because he was anxious to present himself as the greatest boxer who ever lived. He wanted to create the impression that he could easily dismantle the best fighters in the world. Instead, he succeeded only in giving the press a way of discrediting HIM. The media picked up on the theme that Burns was a second-rate boxer, deciding it was as good a way as any to explain how a black man had managed to become world champion in the first place."

    I think these are interesting and important viewpoints, and certainly worth consideration.

    Burns did go into the Johnson fight the 3-2 favorite.
     
  5. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I couldnt read it, i got the same error as well.

    I also wouldnt mind looking at the images which you say it can be clearly seen that johnson has a black eye, from the fight as i have never seen these or looked that closely. Are they available on line?
     
  6. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    That's the best link yet BM...got to 204. It does indeed say Burns looked ill, unfortunately no primary is cited.

    Burns's post-fight statement:

    "I have no excuses to offer...the public is satisfied that I put up a game and honest fight."

    And in all the reporting of the fight i've read, i've never seen his skin colour or condition remarked upon any other lines than suchlike: "Burns stepped through the ropes, smiling and confident."
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Those in the front row said he looked sick? So he must have been ill .Oh,ok:patsch
    It's about time for you to say he "had a jaundice isnt it?":lol:
    Strange Burns made no mention of being ill ,or even being below par for the bout, in fact if anything, he said he had whipped himself into great shape and shed surplus fat.

    If you bothered to check Burns weights out, you will see that he only weighed 170lbs when he fought Jim Flynn, his usual weight was in the low to middle 170's
    As his two fights with O Brien show.
    Burns was inclined to plumpness, which he had shed for the Johnson defence by strenous hard workouts with Al Kaufmann which can be seen on You Tube.

    After the fight Burns said he had greatly understimated Johnson .

    Do you really want me to post his first hand quotes again?

    The promoter, referee, and also his best friend McIntosh ,said Johnson toyed with Burns.
    Your revisionism is hilarious ,because somebody writes a book it must be true?

    Ever heard of PRIMARY SOURCES?

    You had better check McCaffery out, he normally writes about airplanes:lol:
     
  9. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Burns looked good enough in pre-fight sparring and floored his opponent with a big right hand. From film it is obvious that Johnson was the bigger, stronger, faster and more skilled man which did not bode well for Burns's chances.
     
  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    " I had forgotten more about boxing than Burns ever knew.Burns was a strong fellow,and had a good right hand punch ,if he could have landed but my defenses prevented that.
    No crouching little man can hit a good big man.
    He has to straighten up to deliver and, if the other chap's good and fast enough ,all he has to do is get him when he is coming up"
    Jack Johnson.
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    If your theory that Johnon had cracked ribs is true,how does that jibe with your statement that Johnson was a quitter and a coward?

    If Johnson sustained cracked ribs in the Burns fight, yet went on to win convincingly ,and overwhelmingly, how does that reconcile with your assertions that he was a coward?
    Surely he would have quit long before the 14th round?
    I have had cracked ribs from body punches, let me tell you, they are agonising ,even to cough ,or sneeze is a nightmare.
    Now the only danger I have of damaging my ribs, comes from laughing at your unintentionally hilarious posts.

    God forbid you should leave this site .You are better than a bumper joke book:lol:
     
  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    You said it yourself. He was granted the opportunity of a lifetime against the world champ and despite suffering a broken rib, he dominated, controlled and toyed with his opponent. By all accounts he dominated him in both speed and timing.

    As I said, before this thread i'd never considered the victory too highly but your findings have impressed me and increased my rating of the performance.
     
  13. Swarmer

    Swarmer Patrick Full Member

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    Perhaps you're confusing a black eye with Johnson actually being black. Care to point out a frame or picture where said mouse exists?
     
  14. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    It's a well known fact that Burns had the cuffs on that night.
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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