Buddy Baer should have held the the Hvyweight crown.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Longhhorn71, Nov 27, 2017.


  1. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Buddy Baer for a short time should have held the
    Heavyweight crown.


    Louis vs Buddy Baer Fight No.1 5/23/41

    "Louis dropped Baer with a right in the sixth round. The challenger rose at the count of seven, only to be knocked down again. With the crowd roaring, Baer staggered to his feet at the count of nine, and the bell rang to end the round. Louis didn't hear the bell, and he rushed across the ring and floored Baer with a right. Baer had to be carried to his corner by his handlers. When the bell rang to start the seventh round, Baer was still out. Baer's manager, Ancil Hoffman, and his trainer, Ray Arcel, argued that Louis should be disqualified for hitting Baer after the bell. When they refused to leave the ring, Donovan disqualified Baer.

    • Ancil Hoffman: "The last blow of the fight was struck at least three seconds after the bell sounded ending the sixth round."
    • Arthur Donovan: "That talk about Louis hitting Baer after the bell is baloney. The blow started before the bell sounded."
    • Buddy Baer: "I heard the bell and then was hit as I was dropping my hands."
    • Arthur Donovan: "I disqualified Baer because his seconds refused to leave the ring. As long as I'm refereeing, I insist that my orders be followed."
    • Ancil Hoffman: "We didn't leave the ring when Donovan told us to because Buddy was entitled to his full minute of rest before starting the seventh. Buddy should have won on a foul right then
     
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I don't think that it would have washed somehow.
     
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  3. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Technically maybe but .... really?
     
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  4. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Let's see.

    Baer is declared champion on a DQ. Public pressure and outrage forces a rematch. Louis carpet bombs him again.

    Nice reign, Buddy Baer.
     
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  5. Smokin Bert

    Smokin Bert Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Talk about creating a controversy that just isn't there. That fight was a beat-down. Baer was getting slaughtered in that last round. No way it was going another 3 minutes under any circumstances. And, the ref waved Louis in for that final onslaught. So while it is conceivable that they could have given Baer some extra time to recover from an ACCIDENTAL punch that possibly landed after the bell, a DQ win for Baer was not appropriate.
     
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  6. Smokin Bert

    Smokin Bert Boxing Addict Full Member

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    On a separate note, Baer was roughly the same size as Tyson Fury. He also appeared quicker, hit harder, and had at least as good (if not superior) boxing skills to Fury. Yet the smaller Louis hammered him over 6 rounds the first time, and completely annihilated Baer in 1 round when they fought again. This tells me all I need to know about whether Louis would be "too small" to handle a fighter like the oafish Tyson Fury.
     
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  7. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    What was accidental about a punch coming clearly after the bell?
     
  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Art Donovan was Joe Louis referee in over a dozen title fights. I find his cards and actions to be biased for Louis. This is the same boob who gave Tommy Farr but one round, and had to be removed from the Walcott fight because their camp wasn't going to tolerate his scoring or antics.

    While Buddy Baer was on his way out, the correct call if a full minute to recover, and possibly a point taken away form Louis hitting 3 seconds after the Bell. Louis has a rep for being a clean fighter, but he has his share of timely fouls, most notably landing a mean low blow when he was about to be Ko'd by Schmeling. Louis says it was an accident. Maybe, but I view fouls when one fighter is desperate as more deliberate than accidental.

    As for Donovan DQ'ing Buddy Baer, I'm confused as seconds are allowed into the ring between rounds.
     
  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    It happens in the heat of action.

    Not necessarily deliberate.
     
  10. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Bells are pretty loud. If a punch lands one second after the bell? Okay, three seconds after, take a point and give the other guy as much time as he needs to recover.
     
  11. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Do you have a clip of the bell sounding in real time?
     
  12. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I think it silly to imply Louis deliberately fouled. He was winning decisively and Baer was clearly finished. Why risk a foul?

    Ring Magazine had this to say--"There were absolutely no grounds for accusing Louis of a deliberate foul. The champion is far too cool-headed and fair in his ring tactics to be intentionally guilty of such an action. His past record as a clean, conscientious fighter speaks for itself. The fault rests on the official timer who should have banged away at the gong to call attention to the round's termination."

    Griffith Stadium was not exactly a hotbed of big fights and apparently they had not prepared for the noise level of such a big crowd. The fighters had trouble hearing the bell at the end of other rounds also.

    *Just as an aside, thank heaven Donovan kept his cool. Can you imagine the rioting if Louis had his title taken away on a foul call, especially after the tactics white champions such as Dempsey and Baer had used in the ring without a similar reaction.

    **The Ring Magazine report quotes Donovan as saying he had not heard the bell. Also Ring remarked that many ringside writers said later that they had not heard the bell, which was weak.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
  13. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Here is the Ring Report on why Baer was DQ'd--

    "Ten seconds before the 7th round was due to start, Donovan told Hoffman and the Baer handlers to leave the ring. They didn't obey. The gong rang. Louis walked forward. The referee halted him. Donovan again instructed Hoffman and his colleagues to leave the ring. They refused, and then came the disqualification of Buddy Baer."
     
  14. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I don't think anybody has said he deliberately fouled, but that doesn't mean Buddy shouldn't get his 1 minute to clear his head or a possible point deduction. None of which happened