Buster Douglas of Tokyo v Best of 1990's

James Douglas at his optimal best might have been a top 5-7 fighter during the peak of the 90's, but I say this with no real conviction. He was very inconsistant and although had some decent skills, they are sometimes overrated by virtue of his win over a very great but very unmotivated opponent. If he were to fight the very best men who were rated between 1990-1993, he would likely have a mixed bag of results. Men like Foreman, Witherspoon, Moorer, Bowe, Lewis, Tyson ( motivated ), Holyfield, and perhaps a few others would have my vote to beat Douglas.

A single night's performance against a lackluster performing opponent can't gain much merit when being sized up with the best participants of an era in my opinion...

 

Seen all of Tyson 1000 times. The uppercut didn't hurt him and you can tell. YOU watch it again. Douglas says the same thing.

 

I do too. Douglas was one of a kind that night. Tyson, on the other hand while having a bad performance and not being his best was still a fighter who beats anyone else on that night, except maybe Holyfield.

However, I watched the HBO awhile ago. Douglas seemed fine on giving Tyson a rematch. Maybe I remember wrong, he said he had to talk it over though.



*EDIT* You guys are right. Tyson at his best beats Douglas. You know why? Because the judges rob him in Tokyo once it goes the distance... just like they did for the lopsided scoring of the 10 rounds of that fight. Seriously, Douglas completely neutralized him. It's like all of a sudden Tyson slipped up to a peak slippage for Douglas. What makes him not overconfident against Bruno or Williams? He KTFO them and they don't fight back nor have a smart gameplan. Douglas had all the assets and he used them. Tyson isn't in terrible shape because he withstands it for 10 rounds. Whenever a fighter fought back properly and neutralized Tyson's strengths he always seemed to eventually crumble. Call it as you like. The excuse train can't hold up long enough to nullify Tyson's loses. If it were to happen in 89 or 88 we wouldn't have been able to use that as his ultimate peakage?

By the way, I sort of wonder why the "Spinks" fight is Tyson peak. Seriously, it's clearly his best performances but I don't see how that's is Tyson at his best. Spinks is terribly undersized in looks and in all assets and is bad matchup for him. Tyson just walks into Spinks with zero respect for his power and bangs him out of there. Yes, his timing was terrific but I don't see how that is him at his best. Of course, he looked his best so people string on to that performance as if Tyson of 88 does that against every fighter. It's silly. And not to mention Spinks was probably the most terrified fighter that Tyson ever faced.

Douglas of Tokyo beats Tyson of 88. Only way he loses is worst case robery of judges scorecards... that could be likely seeing the terrible scorecards for Tyson Douglas in 1990. Douglas was not just winning but whooping, whooping on Tyson. He had virtually won almost all the rounds...

 

I have watched it. It was a flash KD and there's no way to get around it. He went down because he was hurt momentarily. He recovered quickly and waited to get up at 8. Of course Douglas says it didn't hurt him. What was he going to say? "It hurt me bad, I thought I wasn't going to get KO'd."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KNuAVivQkU&feature=related

Skip to 3:20 minute mark, you'll see Douglas lean into Tyson's uppercut and get caught right on the button. You can see clearly in the replay this is not a balance knockdown.

 

Who does Tyson beat in particular on that night? He looked awful that night; no bodypunching, no head movement, totally abandoned the jab and just looked for that one punch.

Did he offer? If so, did Tyson decline to fight Tillman?

The scorecards were outrageous but Douglas doesn't beat Mike at his best. You know why? Because an unmotivated and distracted Mike Tyson eventually KD Douglas with a beautiful sharp uppercut. Look at what happens when a fighter gets distracted with personal issues, take Lewis-Rahaman 1 for example. Mike was going through a lot of personal issues then and it distracted him. Yes he trained to get in shape but never really prepared for Douglas as he simply underestimated him. I give tons of credit to Douglas but who's to say that a Prime Mike doesn't KD him down earlier and then finish him? After all, Mike was a great finisher and would eventually get to him around the mid stages of the fight. He would wear him down with proper bodypunching and set his attack up with a sharp jab, which he useally does in every fight but abandoned this after he left Rooney.

The thing is, we've never seen Tyson get beaten in his prime or even come close it it. We know what happend with Douglas; In the Holyfield fights he had the same bad habits and turned into a headcase. In the Lewis, Williams and McBride fights he was way past it. In the Douglas fight, physically didn't slip but mentally he wasn't there and didn't have a plan.

It's his peak because it was right before he started his downfall. Also, it was his best year career-wise; he beat Holmes, Tubbs and Spinks in that year. It was his most impressive string of fights in his career. Spinks was regarded as the only man that could beat Mike or atleast give him the toughest fight of his career. When people saw him blow out the man that beat the great Larry Holmes, they were amazed, not all but most were.

What do the judges scorecards have to do with a fantasy matchup anyway? You're clutching at straws with that statement. Douglas had his best night against a fighter that was having his worst night in his career.

 

I don't think THAT Douglas beats say, the Tyson that fought Berbick.

 

Douglas said that during their fight, Tyson at one point made this whimpering type sound after throwing a punch. Douglas said that it sounded part human, part animal, a sound that wasn't unlike someone moaning or whimpering during an intense orgasm.
Douglas stated that the sound Mike made haunted him for months, and he'd sometimes wake up at night, after having nightmares about it.

That was the reason, according to him, that he decided to try and get Tyson out of there asap.

 

For my money, Tokyo Douglas would give any top heavyweight in the 90's a hell of a fight.
It's not unrealistic to say that he could conceivably beat all of them.

One thing does concern me though, and that is that Tokyo Douglas didn't really have to overcome much adversity in the ring. He suffered a knockdown, but he was winning going away at that point. Aside from that blip, he didn't have to face much heat.

While Tokyo Douglas seemed to be an anomaly, a fighter will invariably revert to type when facing serious adversity. Same fighters fight harder, others go into a shell.
Douglas tended to be one of the latter, and if faced with genuine adversity it's quite possible he'd revert to the 'old' Douglas.

But judging on his form in Tokyo, he'd be a fighter the best heavies of the 90's would like to avoid.

 

To answser your question in the second to last paragraph, its easy now to say that, but watch the commentary before the fight. Many experts were picking Spinks to beat Tyson. This wasnt a foregone conclusion. Secondly, it was Tyson at his best, because he had unified the title, basically faced all styles at that point, and was still an active fighter under Kevin Rooney. It was the pinnacle of his career, he was at his best against the best available opponent at that time. Holyfield was just entering the heavyweight division. There was no time for Spinks to showcase his skills, because Tyson was too much for him. After the fight, Spinks was old, he was too slow, he had bad knees. He could have had a baseball bat that night, he wasnt touching Tyson. I dont think Tyson got hit once in that fight, and this is a guy who was the supposed linear champion.

 

For me the big factor in Tyson-Spinks is that Spinks couldn't hurt Tyson, and Tyson knew it. Tyson said as much in a video on youtube. Michael was a dead man walking that night, but as Lefthook says before the fight many felt he had a good chance of winning.

 

I meant that mentally he wasn't there but physically he was still prime. Still, "Prime" applies not just to the physical aspect of a fighter but the mental aspect as well.