Buster Douglas v Joe Frazier - Who ranks higher and why?

Ali was much better before his exile. His movement was dramatically worse after exile. It's no exaggeration. I'm not going to buy that the Ali that took much more punishment was just a "different' version. He was worse in every aspect. He was a smart fighter so he still got by. But he pulled tricks out of necessity because his legs were not close to the same anymore.

 

It's not hero worship. An ATG fighter can still be great while past it. I don't see what's so crazy about it.

 

Pre-exile Ali was dropped and in serious trouble against Henry Cooper. Post-exile Ali was the one who built an ATG resume and whom the world recognised as the Ali we know today. Truth be told, who did Ali beat pre-exile? Liston was a great win, sure. And who else? Patterson was a mismatch, Ali dominated him. But apart from that, Ali could surprisingly struggle against journeymen. Sonny Banks knocked him down in the first round. You can't seriously argue that Ali's resume pre-exile is anything near his post-exile one. And you can't build a resume like that when you are not in your prime anymore.

 

That's just simply not true.

 

Lol. You're obviously talking about Cassius Clay. Yes I think Muhammad Ali was a better version.

 

Don't know what to tell you. If you can't see the clear decline in his ability, specially his footwork, there's nothing else to be said. The things he did in the 70's was out of necessity. He knew his ability was not the same.

The only thing I'll give you is that maybe his chin matured a bit and he took punches better.

 

He wasn't as agile on his feet but you make it sound like he became a flat-footed plodder. Of course not.

Apart from that, his ring IQ was immensely better. His punching power was better. His chin, as you say, was better (when a Banks and a Cooper can drop you badly but a Foreman can't). His ring generalship was better. His mental game was better. His punching technique got better. He became more versatile. The sixties version was a lean, nimble fighter very heavily relying on his foot speed. In every other department, he was an upgraded version post-exile.

 

Agreed.

 

Douglas beating Tyson, great as it was, doesn't compare to Frazier beating Ali, who for about 16 years dominated the Heavyweights almost as if he was the only one in the ring.

I was going to call Tyson Tysoff, as a joke but tbf both to Douglas and to Tyson, he wasn't faded. He was mentally off, but not physically. The Tyson who lost to Douglas that day was, until the day before, still seen as invincible at that point by many, me included.

 

Who could possibly think Frazier rates anywhere near Buster Douglas? Buster Douglas had 1, again 1 world class win. Then immediately lost is and settled back into the near journeyman level that he was prior to that world class win. I'm not even a big Frazier fan but Jesus, he was the man for quite a while.

 

Not only is it true, it' s spot on.

Re the thread question ?

I find the it preposterous.

To borrow from Larry Holmes, Buster couldn't carry Joe's jockstrap.

 

You come across and an complete idiot and moron.

 

Beat me too it. Thanks. You make a really good point.

This is possibly the ignorant thread ever created on this website.