Buster Douglas was not a one fight wonder and the "Tokyo" label is borderline disrespectful

Jesus. By 85 Douglas had losses to Bey, White and Ferguson, as well as a draw to Tangstad. Sure, he was green when he fought Bey but Bey was debuting. None of them were anythign special at the time and none were within a bulls roar of any top 10 list, or even 20 you'd say. He then beat one contender, who was coming off a loss. That got him a shot against Tucker, who had beaten absolutely nobody and he lost. McCall wasn't rated when Douglas fought him and nor was Berbick.

So what have we got? Just like Tucker, Douglas beat one single solitary contender in the 80's. You can't make this stuff up. You should have listened to Goo's guidance earlier.

His resume shows he clearly wasn't. He didn't beat enough contenders!

Where it it wrong, exactly?

Good heavens. McCall was not a contender when they fought. Lets get some honesty and common sense going. Broad was not remotely a contender!!! Broad did not start his IBF lineage! How could he have?!?!??!!? Broad was bottom of the 10 for 5 minutes, without ever beating a contender. How is Broad being bottom of the 10 almost 2 years before he fought Tucker relevant? Witherspoon blew him out of the water well before Tucker fought him.

What 5 contenders did Buster beat?!?!?!?!?!? Name them. If they aren't a contender at the time of the fight they aren't a contender beaten lol

He'd never fought anyone beside Page. You throw these numbers in our faces with ZERO context. Tucker was worse, fighting dozens of nobodies. You don't prove your worth beating poor souls 5 levels lesser than you. After being beaten by Tucker he didn't beat a top 10 fighter in his 6 fight run leading up to Tyson. The win resumes for Tucker and Douglas are extremely underwhelming excepting Buster's historic win over Tyson.

So he lost a couple of fights he was ahead in? Well lets call those wins lol. Stoppages don't count if the loser is behind.

Name them.

Bey's career record is 18-11-1. He beat Page then never beat anyone good again. Page is like Buster, up and down and wasted potential. Bey was NOT a top HW and certainly not top 10 of the 80's.

You have no idea what context is otherwise this debate would not even be happening. Contenders are only contenders when they are rated at the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Enough already.

 

Tucker has a shockingly underwhelming resume no matter which way you try and twist it. I've explained to you how many contenders he actually beat, you know, the very thing that fighters are judged by.

 

Sure DP, I agree that the performance against Williams was excellent but the ideal integration of heart, mind, body and skill set we saw Buster bring to the table in Tokyo is impossible to beat, just imo.

However, the Williams fight could certainly be called in as secondary support for Buster’s skill set, including his particularly formidable jab.

 

He was always a good fighter despite his inconsistencies, but he was never elite but for that one night. Distinguishing his Tokyo self is warranted, and people who think it's just rose-tinted mythologizing need to ask themselves why it became mythologized in the first place. (A: because it was such a departure from his very best form before or after, deservedly elevated on a pedestal - even if some do get a bit carried away and end up overrating "Tokyo Buster" and making him a top 5 h2h heavyweight historically or whatever).

 

You know what I do agree with you in a way.

I don't think he was anything special in Tokyo, i think Tyson had just declined too much to defeat someone of Buster's ability level.

I refer to him as a flash in the pan because of how elite he looks that night, but even that takes away from his actual worth.

He was a solid top ten contender for about 4 years and he never gets his dues for that. His victory over Page was class, and the way he came back from a kd to stop Tyson was class.

He also has two lower victories over Berbick and McCall which when in the context of a top ten contender, look favourably.

Buster was a solid contender who's stars aligned in Tokyo, but yes he was much more than just Tokyo.

 

It was a combo deal - Tyson had been gradually unraveling in the post-D'Amato/Rooney/Cayton days, and Douglas fought outside his skin basically going super-Saiyan in the wake of his mom's death.

If either factor hadn't been in play, we mightn't have gotten the upset.

 

The more I watch the fight, and i reckon it's the fight i watch most out of the history of boxing, I'm not even sure he fights out of his skin that much.

But then again sometimes I watch it and think he looks like Ali lol

 

Yeah. Tucker gets a lot of mileage on having 3-4 good rounds against Tyson. His win resume reads pretty much like a gate keeper's after that.

 

Just like Holy-Tyson and Ruddock-Tyson one forgets how much clinching and fairly low pace it is for large parts, but Douglas fights very well in the early rds and then good in spurts after that. And of course the finish is a classic.

 

So much of the fight is Tyson plodding forward and telegraphing every single punch he throws.

Douglas stands his ground for the first 2 rounds and doesn't get bowled over. Like he actually stands up to Tyson, which should be an expectation of any pro boxer to not just **** themselves.

Then he survives the long count.

And he comes on strong when Tyson is gassing to give us that beautiful combo to put Tyson down.

But more often than not, when I watch it I find myself thinking Douglas isn't any better than he was against Page or McCall, but Tyson is levels behind what he was against Berbick, Tubbs and Spinks.

And then you watch Bruno again and realise that there are signs there when you look for them. And you remember Williams had been bombed out by Weaver and you start noticing how inactive Tyson had become and it does form a pattern.

 

Don't really agree. I think that Douglas worked beautifully behind the jab for the for the first four or five or so, and he continued to disrupt Tyson's rhythm with it, but the pace slowed down. But the pace was often slow after the first few rounds in Tyson fights. It was against Tucker and Thomas, as well, but in those people prefer to only remember the good parts.

The Tyson who had consistent head movement and combos after the early going only ever existed in memories and Youtube highlights. If the Thomas fight was the one before Douglas people would point to it to as a sign of his decline. But as it is, only the ending is remembered not the rounds between the first and last which were slow and fairly controlled by Thomas.

 

For me his fights against Bruno and Douglas are just clearly below previous levels.

But his training at this point in his career was well documented so it isn't a surprise looking back.

 

Well documented after the fact you mean? Like with Duran's every loss.

Oh, yes, FOTC is that too. So let's strike that shall we?

 

With that said, I don't believe Tyson was in top shape against Douglas or with super focus, I'm just sceptical to the whole "an absolute shell of himself" narrative. I don't think he looked it in the fight and you don't get down to normal fight weight if you totally disregard training.

And I pay little attention to what is said after fights. No one seems to have ever been trained or injury free when you hear those stories.

 

Tucker also beat Norris and McCall who were likely top 10 heavyweights at the time he beat them

Still a poor resume but not quite as bad as some people are claiming