But at what cost?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Kamikaze, Jun 16, 2021.

  1. Kamikaze

    Kamikaze Undisputed* Duration Champion Full Member

    Oct 12, 2020
    Fights that did not need to happen and the gain was so small compared to the price paid. I was thinking of Ali vs Shavers. He won a token victory a spot on his already huge resume. Ali had the respect of the crowd for that night yet the toll was so high and he proved nothing we did not know he had a great will to win at any cost to his health. However the fight was simply ugly, forgettable and in retrospect now it is just depressing to watch.

    "At what cost?"
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    Mar 21, 2007
    Reverse the question.
    Richard M Murrieta likes this.
  3. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Aug 22, 2004
    Bit of a stretch to fault the Shavers effort with Ali's condition in and of itself. Not sure I understand the point being raised.
    Richard M Murrieta likes this.
  4. Bronze Tiger

    Bronze Tiger Well-Known Member Full Member

    Jun 23, 2018
    any fight that involved Wayne McCullough
  5. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

    Mar 3, 2019
    Tub ta tahw tsoc?
  6. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Jul 16, 2019
    I saw that fight live on NBC on Sept 29 1977. Muhammad Ali started to show movement, flicking out his left jab, but when Earnie Shavers started to land his bone rattling right hand to the jaw of Ali, the champ, took it but you could tell that it must have hurt him. Ali began to rub Shavers bald head. Ali used Rope A Dope in the corner but Earnie stepped back, not willing to engage. The crowd at Madison Square Garden was on their feet every time Shavers landed. I believe that it was a well deserved decision for Ali, it demonstrated that he could still take a punch from a murderous puncher such as Earnie, even at such an advanced age. Ali's skills from his peak years of 1964-1967 were long gone, but what kept him in many tough fights such as this was his long experience and his confidence. I think that after this fight Ali should have called it a career, retiring with his title as so many great champions in boxing history have done. His next fight against Leon Spinks was so unnecessary. Again, his skills by that time were eroded. From a monetary perspective and from a historical one it was a good move, but from a physical one, it was a bad move. Everyone should take care of their bodies, you are only given one in life. These Bean Stock sized fighters today with their Steroid use, it is not modern nutrition, (many of us were not born yesterday) those individuals may someday suffer from bad after effects on their bodies due to vanity. Ali should have left the game after Earnie Shavers in 1977.
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
  7. djanders

    djanders Boxing Addict Full Member

    Feb 21, 2009
    Bob Fitzsimmons fighting Jack Johnson in 1907 in Philadelphia.
  8. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Bronsonville Full Member

    Jul 25, 2015
    Kiyoshi Hatanaka had just won the WBC Super Bantamweight title with a KO over Pedro Decima, making him widely famous in Japan in addition to his popular, fan friendly fighting style. Instead of taking an easy defence for some good change, however, he elects to fight bonafide badass Daniel Zaragoza in one of the most ridiculously high paced wars in Boxing history. Losing a SD, he retires having completely burnt out, the bout having caused paralysis in his eye.

    Jack 'Kid' Berg also qualifies, ironically in a win. Berg took a vicious hiding from the legendary Tony Canzoneri in their first bout, almost being KO'd repeatedly in the 1st, with ringside press wondering how the **** he was still taking it. Yet Berg somehow managed to rally forth with incredible heart, brawling with a whirlwind intensity that somehow lead to an incredible win. I'm pretty sure this fight took a lot out of him, even though Berg went on to have an incredible short run of wins, including being the first man to beat Kid Chocolate. However, after the KO loss to Canzoneri in the 2nd bout, Berg started to lose multiple fights by TKO, and I think the first bout was a big contributor to his overall damage.
  9. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Jul 30, 2014
    Wtf George? :lol: :lol:
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  10. Kamikaze

    Kamikaze Undisputed* Duration Champion Full Member

    Oct 12, 2020
    Fights that took more then they were worth. Shavers vs Ali is the example I’m using because Earnie was no great fighter and one he really did not need to face he was already shot and suffering from brain damage. He took huge shots and was said to have not been able to touch his nose with the lights off afterwards. It only proved that he did not belong in the ring anymore despite winning.
    swagdelfadeel likes this.
  11. Kamikaze

    Kamikaze Undisputed* Duration Champion Full Member

    Oct 12, 2020
    Great examples! At least you get it.
  12. Indefatigable

    Indefatigable Active Member banned Full Member

    Mar 6, 2021
    Gotta disagree. I LOVED that fight. Shavers greatest performance. No one thought he could go 15. And DOMINATE? I had him winning and love the right hands and left hooks he caught Ali with. One of my fave Heavyweight Championship fights and the card itself was a great card & night with Rossman & Arguello. No bueno! Your wrong. I get your point though. ALI was hrt 4ever & that is sad.
    Richard M Murrieta likes this.
  13. Kamikaze

    Kamikaze Undisputed* Duration Champion Full Member

    Oct 12, 2020
    You loved watching a brain damaged Ali struggle with a man who was thrashed by Bob Stallings?
  14. GoldenHulk

    GoldenHulk Well-Known Member Full Member

    Jan 7, 2007
    I agree completely, but I've always believed that Ali deliberately lost to Spinks. Spinks was supposed to e a tune up for a 4th fight with Ken Norton who reastablished himself as the number 1 contender in 1977. The Ali-Spinks shenanigangs were a disgrace to boxing, Ali was over the hill and Spinks was a novice. Ken Norton was the real victim, getting the WBC title in Mexico City in June of 78 and losing it to Larry Holmes a mere 3 months later. As much as I like Holmes I really wish that Norton got the decision in their fight, because of getting screwed by Ali and the politics surrounding Muhammad.
    Richard M Murrieta likes this.
  15. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Addict Full Member

    Oct 4, 2016

    I remember Ali saying some years later he didn't recall several rounds of his fight with Shavers after that second round. It's like he went from round 2 to round 9. I believe Ray Robinson had a similar experience . Not a good sign for sure
    Richard M Murrieta likes this.