"But superheavyweights back then were BAD!"

The big guys cause they didn't knew how to use their size to their advantage

 

Agree. Fury even finds a way to use his fatness to his advantage.

 

I think most of the old time Lineal Heavyweight Champions lifted weights: John L. Sulllivan, James J. Corbett, Tommy Burns, Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney, Max Schmeling, PRIMO CARNERA, and Max Baer were all known to lift weights during training. I'm guessing that others did, too, even if the evidence just isn't there to prove it (as in lack of evidence doesn't prove the negative). I strongly suspect that most Heavyweights down through the ages used weight lifting as part of their training. As an example, I talked with descendants of Marvin Hart, who insisted that he lifted free weights of considerable poundage, and there's no real proof of that available, but I really don't think they made it up.

Obviously some lifted more than others. And some used lighter weights for reps, while others lifted heavier. I heard that JESS WILLARD lifted for the Johnson and Dempsey fights, but, again, no proof.

I believe the BIG GUYS (Super Heavyweights), as well as the smaller ones, lifted way back when. I imagine boxers always have. There are even stories from ancient Greece about lifting weights.

 

I think it’s pretty clear that we have more coordinated, athletic, fast-twitch big men across all sports now.

College football linemen were 250-275 pounds and usually 6-1 to 6-3 in the 1970s and 80s (and smaller before) and now we have 6-7 to 6-9, 325- to 350-pound left tackles who move faster than those guys.

There were 7-footers in basketball who plodded down the court and couldn’t score outside of a few feet from the basket. Now they run the court and drain 3-pointers. And there was nothing resembling a 6-9, 250-pound LeBron James even a generation ago.

Etc.

Same thing with heavyweight boxers.

 

What could possibly have happened, to make coordination and fast twitch fibers improve among big men?

I mean even theoretically?

 

I’m not a big fan of Jess Willard’s style. Held his Guard low. Didn’t make good use of his reach. Telegraphed punches. Just not a very good fighter. I liked Carnera though. He had a pretty good jab and despite the endless criticism he’s received could actually box a bit. By all standards he was a fighter who should have won more of his fights and perhaps reigned as champion longer.

 

There are still a lot of centers who can't shoot in the NBA.

There is nobody that resembles LeBron James today either, he's a generational athlete.

There is nobody resembling 7'1 290 lbs Wilt Chamberlain now.

 

Just to be clear, you recognize the extraordinary change in athleticism and skills in the NBA over the past half-century (his broader point), right?

 

Well according to Dempsey in his biography, Willard often slacked off in his training. Kearns used to spy on the camp and he was kind of just going through the motions, barely sparring, didn't even have all his equipment and camp with him, etc. I don't remember anything about Willard lifting weights light or heavy, but it's certainly possible.

I tend to believe Dempsey on this subject since he wouldn't gain anything by claiming his best opponent didn't train as well as he could, and he seems to have been a pretty honest and direct person.

 

This is undeniable, but the question is why? How come there is such a drastic change in athleticism in multiple countries in such a short amount of time for big men over 6'4?

Another crucial question is: to what degree are these big men in boxing better than their predecessors? Are they both way more skilled and more athletic? How much of it can be attributed to new trainers finding new methods? How much can be attributed to PEDs?

 

No, not necessarily—I don't think these things are at all parallel.

And big heavyweights learning how to "fight big" is probably as much about tactics and strategy as it is about skills.

 

Well in the case of both Wilt and LeBron, not only were they genetically gifted, they worked extremely hard and made the most of their talent with a burning desire to be the best. In lebron's case he had a magnifying glass on his career since high school with the media, sponsor's, and recruiters hyping him up. That no doubt put even more pressure on him to succeed.

There are a plethora of athletic big men today in multiple sports that are underachievers with horrible stats. It's an x factor that often gets overlooked in these discussions.