Bute-Andrade, Chavez-Taylor revisited. This is why ref's should continue their count.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by NALLEGE, Oct 24, 2008.


  1. NALLEGE

    NALLEGE Loyal Member banned

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    The referee in the Bute-Andrade ruined a great comeback by Andrade. Congrats to both fighters. Bute is a poor man's Calzaghe, and Andrade is a poor man's Margarito lol. They gave us a good fight, but the wrong guy won. I couldn't help but feel for Andrade who came across as very likeable and sincere in the post fight interview as did Bute. This fight deserves a rematch because I don't see Bute as champion or winner of this fight.

    Lucian Bute should have a loss on his record, and here's why. Andrade did go to the wrong corner, but a ref should not stop his count EVER. The ref should've directed Andrade to the neutral corner BEFORE he even started his count. But we'll get to that. Nady did this when Judah went down, and then went down again. Nady counted to 4, and stopped the fight. What the !@#$!#$ was Nady thinking stopping his count. You count to 8, make an observation of the fighter and then stop the fight. Judah was up well before 10, and never got the chance to finish or let Kostya finish him.

    J.C Chavez was losing to Mel Taylor and dropped Taylor with a big right. Mel finds the strength to get up and earns the right to be finished in a major unification fight, and Steele asks Taylor if he is ok, after Taylor has been through a war, he says nothing, but he does get up from the knockdown, and Steele stops the fight instead of letting it go.

    Now we have Andrade who knew he was behind, attacking Bute from pilar to post. I saw Andrade's body shots weakening Bute, and after the knockdown, what I saw was one of the worst decisions I ever saw by a ref. The ref started his count, and then stopped his count, and THEN continued his count again lol. If anything, he should've told Andrade to go to the neutral corner BEFORE he even started counting. Instead, he counted to six I believe, stopped his count...kept screaming at andrade to get to the neutral corner, and then continued his count. Ref's should not stop their count ever unless they are stopping the fight. This is why there is controversey when you don't count to 8. A damn shame.
     
  2. Tony OldSchool

    Tony OldSchool Member Full Member

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    I don't think Andrade would have had any time to work with once Bute stood. Chavez arguably would have had about 3 seconds to walk across the ring and drop Taylor one more time. I'm not saying I agree with that stoppage, but that might have been the outcome.
     
  3. Adaptation

    Adaptation Well-Known Member Full Member

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    The only difference is that taylor was down at 13 seconds. Hence, at the end of his count, there was time left and the ref must never take in account the time.

    Bute got up and the fight was over. BUT i do believe the ref SHOULD have stopped it because the ref never takes in account the time.
     
  4. NALLEGE

    NALLEGE Loyal Member banned

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    Exactly, there was no time on the clock. Now, had the ref directed Andrade to the neutral corner before he started his count, counted to 8, and had a good look at Bute, he might've had to make a big decision, let him go or stop the fight. Bute did get up well before 10. Question is was he visibly able to continue???
     
  5. Smazz20

    Smazz20 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The ref made a huge huge huge blunder that cost a fighter the right to be called champion. He should be axed from big fights until he proves he's adept enough to handle these situations. Bute fought well enough and outboxed Andrade for the bulf of the fight. Bute to me, he was KO'd at the death.
     
  6. la-pantera

    la-pantera Member Full Member

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    makes me wish steve smoger was the ref instead of this **** ****** hometown ref no one has heard about.:roll: what title fights did he ref in? just wondering so i can check them out?
     
  7. NALLEGE

    NALLEGE Loyal Member banned

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    Naw, we don't need Smoger. He just jumped in and stopped the Pav-Taylor fight, and issued no count. Champions/fighters deserve better than that even if there is no standing 8 count. J.T was not stuck on the ropes.
     
  8. BlueApollo

    BlueApollo Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Are we all in agreement that there was NO time left? Even if there wasn't, there damn sure would have been minus all the silly antics by the ref.

    Atlantic City, January or February, Smoger as ref. Please let this happen.
     
  9. BlueApollo

    BlueApollo Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Jermain was toast. Bute was positively lucid tonight in comparison.
     
  10. la-pantera

    la-pantera Member Full Member

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    aiight good point i can see that. but in all the fights ive seen smoger is like an all action ref. i mean to me it appears taht bute was kind of in that same debilitated state JT was. so does anybody know what other title fights this ref has reffed?
     
  11. NALLEGE

    NALLEGE Loyal Member banned

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    Had the ref told Andrade to go to the neutral corner, and then started his count, he could've looked into Bute's eyes and made a decision rather than appear as if he gave Bute time to recover. The ref doesn't know how much time there is. Bute looked done, but he did get up.
     
  12. NALLEGE

    NALLEGE Loyal Member banned

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    Smoger is a good ref, I just thought he made a quick decision and should've counted to 8. Fighters deserve that respect after training months for a fight.
     
  13. NALLEGE

    NALLEGE Loyal Member banned

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    J.T may have been toast, but J.T deserved a count which is my point. In the Bute-Andrade fight, the ref not knowing how much time was on the clock might've counted to 8, looked in Bute's eyes and either let them go, or stopped the fight. I doubt it lol, but you never know.
     
  14. DanePugilist

    DanePugilist God vs God - Death Angel Full Member

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    Bute reminds nothing of Calzaghe. If anything he is more like a poor mans Kessler.

    That aside, Andrade has alot to blame upon himself - if you look past last round. He started too tenative, and he didn't keep the pressure up after round 5, when he had Bute in the bag. Kudos to Bute for quickly clinching on many occations, when Andrade turned the heat up, but he was vulnerable, and Andrade didn't take advantage of this - till the last round.

    I can only wonder, how Butes corner could give him such bad advice for the last round. He was already breathing heavily, and they should just have said, "last through this round, and you will win" - instead they encouraged him to go in there, and win the championship, like he was forced to do something to win.

    Concerning the ref - he at first looked at Bute for a few secs(wtf), then looked at Andrade, then he started counting to 2, then stopped, turned around, told Andrade to goto neutral, then turned back and continued counting, then turned again, told Andrade to goto neutral corner and started arguing, then turned, by then Bute was leaning on the ropes.
     
  15. NALLEGE

    NALLEGE Loyal Member banned

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    Good post. I believe Bute was up befoe 8, but we don have to see what the count was by the guy outside the ring. I think the showtime crew issued there own count and were surprised Bute was up before 10. Good post though!:good