Bute Andrade - outrageous refereeing

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=_BD5rCPcXJ0

Bute is dropped with 2 secs remaining in the round. You math doesnt add up Duke, the round was over, the bell rang later simply because the ref had not finisihed his count and the timekeeper could not ring the bell until the ref deemed Bute fit to continue as no fighter can be saved by the bell.

Bute was up before 10 anyway...even if the ref's count was out because he stopped it. The film shows this clearly aswell.

I dont disagree he was helping Bute out though, but I have seen much worse and blatant examples of this. Even in oz with Alan Moore's infamous 1..2..3..4..5678910 count in the Seran-Taylor fight being a recent example.

 

The timekeeper didn't know what he was doing. For Bute to have been saved by the bell, things would have gone like this:

Bute goes down with 2 seconds to go. The ref starts the count. Two seconds after the knockdown, the bell rings. Bute is still on the floor. The referee stops counting as soon as the bell rings, because he was saved by the bell. Had the referee not stopped counting, Bute wouldn't have been able to beat the count in time, but since the bell rang and the referee stopped counting, Bute no longer had to beat the count, so he could get up at his own leisure within the 1 minute interval break. This is what being saved by the bell means. It doesn't mean that the referee has to deem you able to continue before the bell is allowed to ring.

Am I making this up? No!

Here's how the rule defines it:

6. The bell will not save a boxer in any round of the bout. If a boxer is "downed" just before the 3-minute bell in any round, the referee's count shall continue and the bell will not ring until the boxer rises and his hands clear the floor. ​

http://www.ibf-usba-boxing.com/userfiles/File/IBF-USBA%20Bout%20Rules.pdf​

Notice that the rule says for the bell to ring, you have to rise and have your hands clear the floor. It doesn't say, as you suggested, that "the bell will not ring until the boxer rises and his hands clear the floor AND THE REFEREE DEEMS THE BOXER ABLE TO CONTINUE, AND GIVES THE TIMEKEEPER A SIGN THAT HE IS NOW ALLOWED TO RING THE BELL"​

There's a hell of a difference between these two.​

Bute wasn't saved by the bell, but the bell should have ringed when he rose with his hands clear of the floor, eight seconds after the knockdown, six seconds after the end of the three minute period - because that's what the rule above says should happen. The timekeeper failed to obey the rule, not because Bute wasn't allowed to be saved by the bell, but because the timekeeper didn't know what he was doing.:good ​

 

Be honest. You reckon Bute slipped?

 

I didnt realise that was the IBF's rules but other bodies and organisations have different rules, maybe thats why the timekeeper did what he did. I was told this by an actual ref mind you so of course Im going to take his word on it even if his interpretation isnt exactly the same as the IBF's.
Plus you are putting words into my mouth, I never said "GIVES THE TIMEKEEPER A SIGN THAT HE IS NOW ALLOWED TO RING THE BELL" I just said the bell was not going to sound until Bute was deemed to be up, which does not always mean your "hands have cleared the floor" many, many fighters have been counted out on their feet in the ring or with their hands no where near the floor. Which I guess if it happened in this situation would have been contravening the rules.

But I think the word that should have the most weight in that passage is the word "rises", which the timekeeper isnt really qualified or in a position to decide because Bute could have got off the ground but been draped on the ropes or holding himself up on them which means he has not properly risen from the KD. The ref would be the one who decides that.

My point really had nothing to do with that anyway, the fact is Bute got up before 10 and after the end of the round so Andrade would not have had another shot to stop him. A lot of people were confused by the bell sounding later as they thought the round had not ended and Andrade was robbed of a chance to stop Bute, which is just not true.

 

Well, many fighters get counted out because they don't just had to beat the count, as Bute had to, in this case, but they also have to convince the referee that they are able to continue, because the KD, in all these cases, doesn't occur with a couple of seconds left on the clock, in the very last round; it occurs in the middle of the last round, or earlier in the fight, etc, so not only must they beat the count, but they must also prove able to continue. They cannot convince the ref they are able to continue for as long as the fight is scheduled for, so he counts them out even thought they beat the count (risen with their hands clear of the floor before the ref has a chance to count them out).

About the word "rises", it is assumed the fighter was either on the floor or helpless on the ropes, at the time of the KD, right? So, he must rise off the floor or off the ropes and he must have his hands clear of the floor. It's obvious for anyone at ringside whether this condition is fulflled. You don't need to be a foot away to see whether the guy is on his feet and whether his hands are on the floor, after a KD. This is why the timekeeper didn't need the referee's OK to ring the bell, according to IBF rules.

 

Spot on...

 

Bute was saved by the bell, I think we all can agree to that.
SO HE LOST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Bute was not saved by the bell, he regained his feet in time of the ref's count because Andrade left his corner and the count was suspended. There is no real controversy on that, although an argument could be made that the fight should have been stopped before the knockdown as Bute was in no position to defend himself. That stuff about the ref making him walk towards him is garbage IMO - for a start you guys are complaining about the amount of time Bute was given to recover; this adds more time! IMO a fighter has 8-9 seconds to be in a position ready to fight from being knocked down. I won't ever make him walk towards me as I am penalising the fighter who scoredf the knockdown, I wil just judge his movements as me moves towards his opponent, if he is no good then the fight is over

 

Was waiting for you to weigh in on this one Phil, and it's hard to disagree with what you've written.

IMO Bute was just plain lucky enough to hang in just long enough.

In the end he was saved by the rules - and legitimately - but what was Andrade doing wandering around when his butt should have been firmly planted in the corner?

 

Andrade knew time was not on his side, but it didn't make a difference.

 

Couldhavebeen - that is the same question I asked myself and I am sure Andrade has been asking himself non-stop since the fight. Andrade had him beat and handed it back to him on a platter. Ippy has been spot on with everything he said. One of the biggest problems I see in boxing apart from the usual is the lack of knowledge TV commentators have of the actual rules! This then misguides less-knowledgable fans who see things that really are not there

 

Thanks Phil, I'll slip you a tenner next show...

 

Tell the truth Phill...before the bell sounded the ref was holding butes gloves.....bute was looking for his mummy.....would you have waved off the fight?

 

To tell the truth Ashley, I never like to second guess a ref as HE is the one closest to the action, but personally I would have stopped it before the knockdown, IMO he was incapable of defending himself. The ref is or should always going to wipe off the downed fighters gloves and look into his eyes to assess the fighter, the bell rang before that decision could be made.