Bute - why the controversy?

The timekeeper messed up. He didn't follow rule 6 which I quoted above. He should have rang the bell as soon as Bute raised himself with his hands clear of the floor. Please watch the video and read the rules.

http://fr.justin.tv/clip/f2fc320a168

Bute raises himself with his hands clear of the floor 6 seconds AFTER the three minute period. According to rule 6 which I quoted, the timekeeper should have ringed the bell. he didn't. The referee assumed there was still time left in the round, so he went on with his count, etc. He gave Andrade a long count, because he moved out of the corner:

[yt]66CO0lksoEo&feature=related[/yt]

Watch him move out of the corner at 1:23! He's almost in the centre of the ring!

According to this rule, the ref had to stop the count, send him back and then restart the count. That's why there was a long count:

4. When a contestant has been knocked down, the referee will order the standing contestant to the farthest neutral corner and begin the count. If the contestant standing leaves the corner before the count has been completed, the referee shall discontinue the count and order the standing contestant back into the corner. The count will not resume until the standing contestant has returned to the neutral corner.​

http://www.ibf-usba-boxing.com/userfiles/File/IBF-USBA%20Bout%20Rules.pdf​

I'm afraid the 1-5 order you've outlined is not what the rules require. Please read rule 6 that I quoted:​

"The bell will not save a boxer in any round of the bout. If a boxer is "downed" just before the 3-minute bell in any round, the referee's count shall continue and the bell will not ring until the boxer rises and his hands clear the floor."​

It explicitly states that the timekeeper has to ring the bell the moment the fighter rises and his hands clear the floor, as long as he does so before the referee count him out, obviously. If the referee count him out, there is no final bell at all, because the referee indicated the end of the fight by waving his arms. The timekeeper failed to do his job, confusing the referee, who thought there was still time left of the 3 minutes, so he restarted the fight, even though the fight had been over. No one knew that because the timekeeper failed to ring the bell when Bute raised himself, his hands clear of the floor, six seconds after the end of the three minute period. (The timekeeper didn't know rule 6).​

:good ​

 

You're reading the rules wrong.

Here they are regarding KD's, in full:

KNOCKDOWN AND KNOCKOUTS:
1. A boxer shall be deemed to be down when any part of his body except his feet are on the floor, or if he is hanging helplessly over the ropes as a result of a legal blow as ruled by the referee, who is the only person authorized to determine this.

[NOTE: Bute was floored, so it was a knockdown]

2. There will be a mandatory eight (8) count when one of the contestants is knocked off the soles of his feet or draped helplessly across the ropes. If this occurs, the knockdown timekeeper's count will commence and be picked up by the referee. At this point, the referee is in control and the knockdown timer will cease counting.

[A standing eight count is given in the case of a situation where there is not a clean knockdown. Bute was cleanly knocked to the canvas, so the 8 count was superceded by the standard 10 count]

3. When a contestant is knocked down, the referee shall audibly announce the count as he motions with his right arm downward indicating the end of each second of the count. If the contestant taking the count is still down when the referee calls the count of ten (10) the referee will wave both arms indicating the contestant has been knocked out.

[Bute was back on his feet by the count of 7 or 8]

4. When a contestant has been knocked down, the referee will order the standing contestant to the farthest neutral corner and begin the count. If the contestant standing leaves the corner before the count has been completed, the referee shall discontinue the count and
order the standing contestant back into the corner. The count will not resume until the standing contestant has returned to the neutral corner.

[There has been some contention here, and a lot of hearsay. Here is a video shot by someone who was actually at the fight. In it you will see Andrade clearly go to the wrong corner, invoking the ref's admonishment. He then goes to a neutral corner and drifts back toward the middle of the ring, causing the ref to stop and yell again, in accordance with rule #4 stated here. The ref did nothing wrong: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66CO0...eature=related]

5. Three (3) knockdowns in any one round do not automatically terminate the fight. If in the referee's judgment, which must be keen and decisive, the knockdowns have been indecisive and clearly have no injurious effect upon the boxer, the contest may continue but with good sense and judgment and the boxer's welfare always paramount.

[Not applicable here as Bute was only KD'd once]

6. The bell will not save a boxer in any round of the bout. If a boxer is "downed" just before the 3-minute bell in any round, the referee's count shall continue and the bell will not ring until the boxer rises and his hands clear the floor.

[This is exactly what happened. Time expired, Bute got up and his hands cleared the floor, and the bell rang ending the fight. Strictly according to rules.]


If Andrade's camp decides to fight this, I suspect they will find no impropriety. Certainly I don't see any.

 

If Bute was out on his feet, on the ropes, that means the ref could have given him an 8 count. Do you really think it would have been at Andrade's advantage? With 30 seconds to go, 8 count, that leaves something like 20 seconds to the fight. Bute has not hit the canvas, and had a nearly 10 seconds break (usually, an 8 count takes that time before fighters start to fight). I'm sorry, but the chances are that Bute would not have been ko'd. So, no robbery there neither.

 

No standing 8 count(couldn't get counted without going down),smart thing for Bute was to take a knee himself but he just didn't

 

Judge it yourself by watching the video. As long as the ref didn't gave an order whether to continue or not, the time keeper didn't ring the bell. The rulebook you copy doesn't explain this, but this is the PROPER order. The time keeper simply can't overrule the ref, he can't ring the bell when the ref is at 8, and he didn't. He simply waited as the ref made his decision... and he should never order to continue... why is there a rule that 'you cannot be saved by the bell', if a fighter - standing or not - is clearly not in conditon to continue when the bell rings?

Do you agree that when the bell rang Bute was not in the condition to fight?

 

Unless the ref states the ropes prevents him of falling on the floor. You're right, Bute should have put a knee on the the floor.

 

To be saved by the bell would be not to be able to stand up and still win. I don't know the other assiciations, but those are the IBF rules. Read them again. We heard in Montreal an interview with Guy Jutras, a former international referee, who said that according to the IBF rules, bute won the bout from the moment he stood up.

 

This is how Bute could have been saved by the bell, if there was such a rule to allow it:

Bute gets knocked down with 2 seconds left on the clock. The referee starts the count. Two seconds later, the timekeeper rings the bell to signal the end of the three minute period. Bute is still down. The referee stops counting because Bute's been saved by the bell. 10 seconds after he has been knocked down, Bute is still on the floor. If the bell hadn't ringed and the referee had kept on counting, Bute would have been counted out, because he couldn't beat the count in time. But because he was saved by the bell, the referee stopped counting and Bute didn't have to beat the count anymore. He could take the whole minute in between rounds to get up and be ready for the next round.

But rules 6 says he cannot be saved by the bell. It also says the bell has to ring after the end of the round, the moment Bute rises with his hands clear of the floor. The timekeeper didn't ring the bell the moment Bute got up, six seconds after the end of the three minute period, prolonging the fight illegally. The referee thought there was still time left in the round, so he continued the count and then restarted the fight. Only THEN did the timekeeper ring the bell, long after the fight was effectively over.

Bute wasn't saved by the bell because he was up 8 seconds after the knockdown. He beat the count!

:good

 

You cannot be saved by the bell has a simple and clear meaning.

If the fighter goes down with fewer than 10 seconds remaining, he cannot be saved by the end of the fight. The fight clock stops until he gets up and clears his hands of the canvass. Which is exactly what Bute did.

Note that there is no wording in the rules that say what the ref must do to determine if the fighter can continue. All it says is that the fighter must be up and cleared his gloves of the canvas. That's it.

So it's up to the ref's discretion. You can probably make an argument that the ref should have called the fight, but that's certainly not worthy of scandal. He followed the rules.

 

So Freitas should have also scored a KO over Barrios in the end of the 11th round ?
Barrios was knocked down in the bell rang, got up at 6 or 7 and was still out on his feet.

 

I agree...Bute is the man..he dominated him...and yeah he got caught tired at the end...but he got up so he wins

 

I think we'll never agree... IMO it's a clear situation. The time keeper waited for the ref's 'over' or 'okay' (= 'fight') order. Therefore the decision was in the ref's hands... and he said 'okay' while Bute was not okay. The bell rang only after the ref's call. I don't know what more can I say... I mean this happened, there's video proof that this happened. Or it didn't?

 

Even if you believe he beat the count:

Bute slumped face first onto the ropes after 10 seconds had passed.

If not for the long count, it would have (with a neutral referee) been ruled a TKO win for Andrade, with Bute unfit to continue.

 

Sorry, can you say exactly where you think the controversy lies? It seems that you have an issue with the ref's decision to decide that Bute was OK to continue. Is that true?

If so, then you have a dispute with the judgement of the ref. Fine, but understand that the ref actually followed the rules to the letter. He did nothing wrong according to the IBF rules regarding KDs.

So where exactly is the scandal?